Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Discover the ZEISS Digital Nature Hub

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Western capercaillie in Germany

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Thursday 14th November 2019, 21:23   #1
AntonBE
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Antwerp
Posts: 72
Western capercaillie in Germany

Hi! A few Dutch friends and I have a few free days in mid December, and we were looking into the possibility of seeing Western Capercaillie in Germany then.
The first question is of course which of the populations is the most reliable to see, and the second is if it is reliable/possible to see them in the winter, more specifically in December? We were currently mainly interested in the Southern Bavarian population because of the proximity of other nice birds (woodpeckers, other grouse, potentially some Alpine species if we go high enough into the mountains), but more information about the Black Forest population is also welcome, which is of course much easier to get to from Belgium and The Netherlands! Are there any specific spots/trails in either of the regions that provide high chances of seeing capercaillie?

Any help is more than welcome,
Thanks in advance,

Anton

Last edited by AntonBE : Thursday 14th November 2019 at 21:31.
AntonBE is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 15th November 2019, 15:34   #2
Sangahyando
Registered User

 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kiel
Posts: 1,978
Sounds like a daunting task. It's theoretically possible to see them in and around the Black Forest National Park (where you may also find Nutcracker, Three-toed Woodpecker, and Citril Finch). From the Netherlands, that's the closest location IIRC. I'm sure some of them also occur farther south throughout the Black Forest (there was recently an article linked on this forum about some drunks in that region who received an educational beatdown for killing a Caper). I'd expect these species to be pretty difficult to find, though.
Sorry if that's a bit vague, I don't spend nearly as much time in the southern part of the country as I should.

For the Alps, have you checked the "birdinggermany" site for tips, including possible trails? If not, here it is again:

http://www.birdinggermany.de/Berchtesgaden.htm (key word "Auerhuhn", in case you're struggling with the language)
http://www.birdinggermany.de/allgaeu.htm (dito)
http://www.birdinggermany.de/auerhuhn.htm (this one lists a couple of sites in the Alps)
http://www.birdinggermany.de/bavarianwoodpeckers.htm (this one is in English)
Sangahyando is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 15th November 2019, 19:19   #3
jurek
Registered User
 
jurek's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Switzerland/Poland
Posts: 4,431
Try Scotland or Scandinavia. In Germany it is very rare, very shy, and any area with a good probability of a sighting is likely closed for access, too.
jurek is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 17th November 2019, 20:22   #4
albatross02
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Berlin
Posts: 1,734
Check Tatzelwurm see
http://www.birdinggermany.de/bavarianwoodpeckers.htm

or

Skitour way of Scheinbergspitze of there is not to much snow
https://www.bergtour-online.de/skito...nberg-skitour/

I am away middle of December.
Otherwise I would follow. I live in Munich.
I saw Capercaillie twice this week.
albatross02 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 19th November 2019, 15:21   #5
albatross02
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Berlin
Posts: 1,734
Quote:
Originally Posted by jurek View Post
Try Scotland or Scandinavia. In Germany it is very rare, very shy, and any area with a good probability of a sighting is likely closed for access, too.
Because this I would avoid normal mountain hiking ways or go very early in the morning.
A friend of me go old ways which he find in books. Mostly the ways are difficult to find because nobody use them since many years. He found much more often Capercaillie than me, even though he does not look for it.

Scheinbergspitze skitour way useally not used outside ski saison.
In Skitour season is crowded.

If snow is avaialble check e.g.
https://www.alpenbahnen-spitzingsee.de/webcams/

Spitzingsee is located at 1.100 m. The peaks around about 1.600 m.
albatross02 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 19th November 2019, 17:57   #6
AntonBE
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Antwerp
Posts: 72
Thanks for all the responses! The Tatzelwurm area definitely seems interesting, so I think we will probably give it a shot! Besides capercaillie, are other 'target birds' (three-toed and white-backed woodpeckers, wallcreepers, hazel and black grouse, rock ptarmigans, alpine accentors, snowfinch, citril finch, perhaps owls, etc) possible in winter as well, or will they be very hard to find because they don't vocalize in December? The links provided already offer a lot of good locations for those species, but more specific information is also always welcome.

About the snow: are the roads accessible when it has snowed recently? Do you think it will be a big problem for walking/climbing the trails while birding? We will probably be there from the 19th until the 23rd of December, so I expect there will be quite a bit more snow than there is currently!

Thanks in advance!

Last edited by AntonBE : Tuesday 19th November 2019 at 18:00.
AntonBE is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 20th November 2019, 16:35   #7
albatross02
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Berlin
Posts: 1,734
Tatzelwurm is easy to hike, also with snow.
If is many snow, gaiter is recommended.
Owls have have in Munich in Forstenrieder Park ( start from U-Bahn station Forstenrieder Park ).
For Rock Ptarmigan and Wallcreeper best got in summer with lift to Karwendelspitze.
Same Alpine Accentor and Snow finch.
Hazel Groose is extrem shy. Mittel of April start form Oberau to Roßalm, there is good chance for hearing there wissle.
For Citril Finch go May or later to Moosenalm at Schafreuter.
For Rock Trush look in summer in Allgäu down south from Koblat hut.
Same for Rock Patridge. But low chance in breeding time.


About snow situation:
In this time can be half meter snow or green meadow. There is only schedule 3 days in front.

check
google meteomedia Wallberg
http://wetterstationen.meteomedia.de...ahl=vorhersage

The mountain is 1.700 m.

or

http://wetterstationen.meteomedia.de...ahl=vorhersage

and

google Alpenverein Wetter
https://www.alpenverein.de/DAV-Services/Bergwetter/Alpen/#2019-11-20|weatherLayer
albatross02 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 21st November 2019, 21:01   #8
AntonBE
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Antwerp
Posts: 72
Thanks for all this great help, yet again! We're currently considering moving the trip to February, because it'd mean we'd have a bit more time. Will any of the birds, or the birding in general, be easier then? I imagine the woodpeckers will be drumming and thus be easier to find?
AntonBE is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 12th December 2019, 22:21   #9
albatross02
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Berlin
Posts: 1,734
Sometimes I see birds in winter in mountains, but not often.
I think middle of April to begin of May the chances are higher.

For woodpeckers see
http://www.birdinggermany.de/bavarianwoodpeckers.htm


In this time is few snow in the mountains and it get warmer.
http://wetterstationen.meteomedia.de...ahl=vorhersage

Last edited by albatross02 : Thursday 12th December 2019 at 22:25. Reason: add info
albatross02 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th December 2019, 14:42   #10
jurek
Registered User
 
jurek's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Switzerland/Poland
Posts: 4,431
It may be easier, if the weather is sunny. Many birds like woodpeckers are vocal in February already, even in deep snow. Some songbirds may be visible around mountain huts or patches of no snow. However, I think that winter is a bad time for birding in the Alps. Definitely check snow situation before going high, for many sites may be closed and unreachable.
jurek is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 15th December 2019, 19:33   #11
dalat
.
 
dalat's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,584
Nothing to add to the good practical info given already, but a word of caution: capercaille should not be searched in winter, birds are highly sensitive to disturbance and flushing them in winter costs them a lot of energy, which is problematic because they live of energy-poor pine needles in winter. Disturbance in winter is suspected to be one of the main reasons of their decline in the alps. Better look for them in late spring or automn. Automn is easiest for access, because no snow.
dalat is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 10th February 2020, 21:44   #12
FredrikJerner
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Oskarshamn
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalat View Post
Nothing to add to the good practical info given already, but a word of caution: capercaille should not be searched in winter, birds are highly sensitive to disturbance and flushing them in winter costs them a lot of energy, which is problematic because they live of energy-poor pine needles in winter. Disturbance in winter is suspected to be one of the main reasons of their decline in the alps. Better look for them in late spring or automn. Automn is easiest for access, because no snow.
I live in the east of Sweden and I find it a little surprising that the capercillie would be so sensitive during winter. I will check if this conclusion is relevant in Scandinavia.
Being both a birder and a hunter I spend a lot of time in the pineforests where I live. I often find those birds and yes, from end of November they leave the blueberry on the ground for eating pine-needles. Though, winter is no problem for them. I own some small properties in the north, close to Lappland, and the capercillie there often sits in pines and eat needles in spite of temperatures around -20 to-30 degrees C. It is then possible to see several groups of birds within a few kilometers. Beautiful and contrasty in the snowy pines.

In end of July and beginning of August i check out how good the breeding has become. The hens with their chickens use to pick sand along forest-roads in the mornings and are easier to count then. I would say October is the best time to find them as they feed on the ground then. Half a day usually results in 2-8 capercillies, both males and females. Good years sometimes 12 in a day. Me and all my friends who work in the forests finds that the capercillie is increasing in the long term but with annual sometimes large variation. It is not an uncommon bird. Especially in the north of Sweden the year 2018 was extremely good for all tetrao-species. The capercillies occured in very large numbers. Old hunters I know in the north who used to speak of the year 1985 as the best they´ve seen ever told me; 2018 was better. This autumn ,2019, was not as good but especially the hazel grouse still has a good year i many areas.

When in trees during winter the capercillie may glide away among the pines without much noise and before you can see them. A capercillie always discovers you first. In March to May the males play and fight and doesn´t always leave immediately when you come along. A wonderful bird, therefore I hold the foxes and badgers down.
FredrikJerner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Western Capercaillie Richard Klim Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature 2 Tuesday 29th January 2019 08:24
Western Capercaillie Paul Longland Opus Discussion Area 1 Wednesday 29th August 2018 23:06
New Video: Western Capercaillie (added by scottishdude) BirdForum TV BirdForum TV Discussion 0 Friday 2nd December 2011 23:55
Black-billed or Western Capercaillie in northern Mongolia tomjenner Bird Identification Q&A 3 Thursday 25th June 2009 11:56
Western Germany, August 2005 Rob Williams Vacational Trip Reports 3 Monday 5th September 2005 19:57

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.12665200 seconds with 26 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 06:00.