Centurus Santa Cruzi Bonaparte, 1838. (1 Viewer)

Frederik Brammer has kindly provided information enabling me to correct the santacruzi entry in the Key. However, initial searches have yet to reveal any details of the "scientific professor in Mexico" referred to by Bonaparte 1838, Proc. Zool. Soc. London, pt. 5, 1837 (1838), p. 116. Are there any aficionados, Mexican or otherwise, out there who can throw some light on the identity of Professor Santa Cruz? I suspect he may have a connection to the Real Seminaria de Mineria, Mexico City, attended by the collector Velazquez de Leon.

I´d like to know as well!

Simply as this Melanerpes santacruzi BONAPARTE 1838, is known as velásquezspett (in Swedish, in line with its English name Velasquez's Woodpecker), OD here, as "Centurus Santa Cruzi" (i.e. not a trinomen).

But before trying to find an all unknown "... scientific professor in Mexico" I would like to know which "Colonel Velasquez" (alt. Velásquez or Velázquez) to start with!? On page 114 he is mentioned as "Colonel Velasquez de Leon" ... who'd spent a fortnight collecting birds in Guatemala.

If we look at Wiki this case clearly looks suspicious! At least the portaits (here, here and here) seems to be the same!? Surely the 18th century Mexican Velázquez (1732–1786) and his 19th century countryman and namesake (1803–1882), couldn't have looked that similar ... .

Anyone who does know whom to start with? And which one would be titled "Colonel". Of course, the 19th century guy would be the most likely, simply as he's in the same Era as the OD. But none of those Wiki entries mention neither one ever visiting Guatemala?

Also see here. Or this book (all in Spanish), from 1885 (decorated with the same Photo!). On p.90 he's in Guatemala (dealing with birds), where Bonaparte also is mentioned! And on pp.16, 55, 59-60, 63 there's various Professors (as well as elsewhere in the same book) ... ? And on pp. 28, 32 and 35 there talk of "Coronel" (Spanish for Colonel), but as I don't know Spanish I cannot tell the context of it. None of it.

Anyone feel like explaining?

Or could it somehow, (as in a possible misunderstanding) be Velásquez himself (whomever he was?) who was a/the Professor in Santa Cruz, in Mexico?

Björn

PS. I assume (!?) it would be the same Velásquez (or Velázquez?) as the one who's commemorated in the invalid "Icteria velasquezi", BONAPARTE 1838, [a synonym of today's Yellow-breasted Chat Icteria virens (Linnaeus, 1758)], described in the same paper as santacruzi (first link above), but on the following page (p.117)
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Calalp said:

If we look at Wiki this case clearly looks suspicious! At least the portaits (here, here and here) seems to be the same!? Surely the 18th century Mexican Velázquez (1732–1786) and his 19th century countryman and namesake (1803–1882), couldn't have looked that similar ... .

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I would say it is Joaquin Velazquez de Leon (1803–1882) There we can find as well:

Capitan Velazquez, nombrándolo con fecha 1 ele Febrero de 1825, Jefe de la Comisión Científica, de la que formaron parte los oficiales-ingenieros D. Joaquín Negrete y D. Pedro García Conde.

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If the professor really exists I agree with James that he might have worked at Escuela Nacional de Minas, y Ministro as it is written:

EL SR. D. JOAQUÍN VELAZQUEZ DE L E Ó N — H a fallecido en esta
Capital este distinguido ciudadano, hijo del fundador de la Escuela
Nacional de Minas, y Ministro que fué en la Administración
del General Santa-Anna.'

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But no Santa Cruz is mentioned.

velasquezi

True, I agree, this far, all looks in favour of "Joaquin Velazquez de Leon (1803–1882)", with or without accent/s (?) ... but was he ever a Colonel (Coronel)?

Alt. a Professor (Profesor)?

Björn

A Coronel de Ingenieros according here.

Thanks, Björn, for finding the Biografia del Señor D. Joaquin Velazquez de Leon (S. Ramirez 1885), which sheds light on his military career; Teniente 1822, Comandante 1828, Teniente Coronel 1829, Coronel 1839. As you have mentioned it also briefly refers to his visit to Guatemala (on pp. 90-91) and the naming of Icteria velazquezi [sic], and an (as yet) unidentified tanager. I note that throughout the biography the name of Joaquim Velazquez de Leon is un-accented. Alas, a Professor Santa Cruz is nowhere mentioned!

velasquezi

You're welcome James! This one we both had use of.

Either way, even if Ramirez in 1885 wrote it (literally more correct); "... la Icteria de Velazquez ó icteria Velazquezi, ...", surely Bonparte's version "Icteria Velasquezi" (from 1838) must have precendence. Ramirez's version (with two z, no s), decades later, must be considered an incorrect subsequent spelling, musn't it?

However, now we (even I) have the proper guy.

If his name ought to be written with or without accent/s? I do not know.

I guess it boils down to how each and every one of us, depending on what line (attitude) one take to Mexican tradition, choose to spell it. In his Era his name seems to have been written "Joaquin Velazquez de Leon", though today they (most Mexicans) seem to write it: "Joaquín Velázquez de León".

I tend towards using the latter version (... with 3 accents!), in my MS.

Any of our Mexican (or Latin American) friends, who can give us some clever advice?

Björn

santacruzi

In this book, from 1890, all in Spanish, (written by the same Santiago Ramirez, who wrote Joaquin Velazquez de Leon's Biography, 1885*), there's a "D. [Don] Victoriano Fernández de Santa Cruz" mentioned on page 215 (in an entry from back in February 1810), apparently "Comisionado de los Gremios Mayores de Madrid en Cádiz" ... ?!

Who he was, more than the above? I haven't got a clue! If relevant, or not, I cannot tell. Could be, or not?

Thereby, take it for what it's worth.

Björn

PS. There's many, many Santa Cruz "out there", both persons and places, which makes searching for him very complicated. However, I doubt Velázquez was thinking of Alonso de Santa Cruz (1505–1567), "cartógrafo, cosmógrafo e historiador", who made one of the earliest maps of Mexico.

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*No other link/connection between Velázquez de León and Don de Santa Cruz found.
Nothing more than the fact that they were both cartographers, of course.
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Bjorn. I believe you may have hit the nail on the head, and that there is a connection between Alonso de Santa Cruz, the 16th century cartographer, and Velazquez de Leon, the engineer and cartographer. Definitely worth a mention in the Key.

Here they wrote about a le colonel mexicain Santacruz. Which would be Wenceslaus Sant Cruz. But I doubt that it is our guy as he was in Mexico around 1866 far away feom 1838.

I was wondering if a paper by Bonaparte in Italian which mentions C. santacruzi adds anything?
t.2 (1838) - Nuovi annali delle scienze naturali. - Biodiversity Heritage Library .
The date of publishing of the PZS is june 14, 1838.
1893 - Proceedings of the Zoological Society of London - Biodiversity Heritage Library .
Not sure the date of the Nuovi annali delle scienze naturali other than 1838.
A paper mentioning Velazquez gifts to Italian scientists and dating the namnes which mentions Bonaparte and where Velazquez collected.
(PDF) Synopsis and typification of the names published by Antonio Bertoloni in Florula Guatimalensis and in preceding publications .

Plants like Justicia vellasquezii here or the genus Vellasquezia seem also named after Velazquez.

But lead astray from the meaxican professor Santa Cruz.

mb1848 said:

I was wondering if a paper by Bonaparte in Italian which mentions C. santacruzi adds anything?

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The text here appears to be a direct translation of the English text published in PZS into Italian. Nothing new, thus.

mb1848 said:

Not sure the date of the Nuovi annali delle scienze naturali other than 1838.

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This journal appears to have had a somewhat erratic start.
The intent seems to have been, from the start, that two volumes would be produced yearly.
The first volume was divided in three apparent "issues" for Jan-Feb, Mar-Apr and May-Jun 1838. (The start of each part and the months covered is marked in the header of the first page of the "issue".) But the second volume, here dated to "1838" (which is what appears on its title page), was not clearly subdivided into dated parts, and actually appears to have covered 18 months rather than a half year -- it included a lot of contents dating from 1839, and no declared "1839" volumes were ever produced. The BHL copy of the third volume has wrappers with dates of publication, hence is easier to handle -- it covered the first half of 1840, with 80 pp produced monthly, which were issued 1-2 months after the end of the concerned month.

The first part of the Catalogo di uccelli messicani i peruviani (with "Centurus Santa Cruzi" in it) is on pp. 340-348 of Vol. 2. On p. 320 of this volume, we find a review of the Jun 1839 issue of a medical journal. And on pp. 261-265, there is another paper by Bonaparte which is dated "Roma 10 Aprile 1839" on its last page (= date of writing; publication must have been later).
It's not possible to come with a hard date of publication for the Catalogo based on this, but it's clear that this publication can't have occurred before well into 1839.

mb1848 said:

...
Not sure the date of the Nuovi annali delle scienze naturali other than 1838.
...

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Even if now (after Laurent's detailed answer in post #13) somewhat superfluous ...

Note that Ridgway (in 1914) listed Bonaparte's first work, i.e. the OD itself, [in Proceedings of the Zoological Society of London, p.116] as of "1837", and his second work [in Nuovi Annali delle Scienze Naturali (di Bologna), Vol. 2, p.343], as of "1839" (here), clearly indicating that the Nuovi Annali one was later ... (Just like Laurent stated above).

That is, of course, even if the OD itself (in PZS) seems to have reached its readers in (June) 1838.

However, no progress made on finding Professor Santa Cruz.

Nothing was added (about him) in Ridgway's other references; Bonaparte's "Consp. Av., i" [i.e. Conspectus (Generum) Avium, Vol. 1] from 1850, (here as "Centurus santa-cruzi"), nor in neither "Ateneo Italiano, ii, 1854, 126" (here), as santacruzi, alt. (reprint/extract) in "Consp. Volucr. Zygod., 1854, 11 [i.e. Conspectus Volucrum Zygodactylorum] here.

Though I assume he's "out there", somewhere. Just waiting to be found.

Keep digging!

Björn

Charles Bonaparte bequeathed his library including his extensive correspondence, to the MNHN. Perhaps there could be something about the professor? The American Philosophical Society has 65 letters of Bonaparte and has Audubon and Ord correspondence in their library. The MNHN library has
3,649 letters received by Charles-Lucien Bonaparte.