Digiscoping Help needed (1 Viewer)

Hi All

I am a complete beginner with regard to digiscoping.
The few attempts I have made have resulted in very poor images.

Out of focus images being the main problem.

I understand about camera shake and it being magnified with digiscoping, and the need for a solid base and shutter release or timer being used.
But that is basically about it.

The kit I have for digiscoping is:

Swarovski ATM 80 HD
Manfrotto 055v
Manfrotto 701RC2 head
Swarovski Telescope Rail
Swarovski UCA Adapter
Canon 550d
Canon 50mm 1.8 II
Shutter Release

Any help will be greatly appreciated

Many will recommend that you don't use a DSLR for digiscoping, the main reason being that larger sensor cameras are more 'light-hungry' than compacts, meaning that faster shutter speeds are usually less easy to get unless conditions are bright. There is also the issue of mirror-slap causing vibrations-as you already know vibrations are the enemy of digiscoping. Even a little wind can cause problems, but if it's calm you should get some very useable results with practise. Either use the cable release, or 2 sec timer.

I started digiscoping several years ago with a compact with 3x zoom lens, but recently have started using a 550D like yours through an 80mm Swarovski. I use the DCA & not the UCA. Therefore our kit is basically very similar.

Firstly, a couple of general statemements. Your set up will be better for stationary subjects, or slower moving ones e.g. that are swimming left to right or vice versa. You can forget the idea of shooting anything fast moving or birds in flight! unless it is a distant large bird flying across the frame. Also you will need to manual focus the scope, though it might also be possible to use the camera's AF once the scope is focussed approximately, though watch that the lens doesn't collide with the eyepiece as the inner barrel moves out during focussing. It should be possible to set up the UCA to leave a space between the camera's lens & the eyepiece glass.

It might be better to switch the lens to manual focus only, to avoid any collisions, then just use the scope's focuser. You will find it easier (by far) to manual focus in live view mode. I always use AV mode, and mostly ISO400. If it is very bright you could lower this to ISO200, or go up to ISO800, or even higher if it is very dark. I'm not sure how well you know your camera's settings yet, but in live view it is possible to magnify the image before taking the shot, by either 5x or 10x. This allows you to really fine-tune the focus before pressing the shutter. It's probably an understatement to say that focussing is the single most tricky element in digiscoping, but with practice it gets easier. Use a coke can in the garden (or the living room!) to practise & really get to grips with this.

You might find this video helpful to get your kit set up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRbVDSsrHyE

My general settings are:

ISO 400
F5.6 or wider (f4 etc) though there will be little to no gain in shutter speeds once the lens is 'opened up' past this point, as the aperture is limited by your scope
Use a cable release or self timer
For some reason when using the 50mm 1.8 I, I got some shots that were very over exposed. Expect to use perhaps a stop or more of EV compansation if you experience this. In some instances I had to under expose by 1.5 stops.

You didn't say which eyepiece you used on the scope. Mine is the 20-60 zoom, and I get no vignetting at any zoom level with a 50mm prime lens on the camera. I've also had some success with the new Canon 40mm STM lens, the Canon 50mm 1.8 I, and recently a Pentax legacy 55 f1.8. The latter was acquired cheaply (under £30) and can be attached to the DCA adapter via its metal filter threads. I wouldn't trust hanging a heavy DSLR from the DCA by the plastic filter threads on modern lenses, but the older lenses are built like tanks!

Something else to consider is video. I find the video possibilities of using a DSLR through your scope via a 50mm prime lens is often better than stills, especially if light levels are low. Obviously 20x is better for quality results, but I've certainly used it at higher mags with success. Start zooming the scope's eyepiece and just watch the shutter speeds drop when shooting stills!

Hope some of this was helpful, and welcome to BF by the way

Steve

A recent example below, not a work of art, but should give an idea of what to expect.
ISO400
Shutter speed, only 1/40 sec, hence why the moving Redshank's legs are a little blurred.
This was with the Pentax 55mm lens which is attached to the camera via an M42 to EOS adapter, available for under £10 from Amazon.
Birds were about 150m away

Thanks for the welcome and the reply Steve.

That should be a big help.
I was considering using a compact camera instead, but would like to give it a go with the set up I already have if I can get some half decent results I would be happy.
I will look at compacts as well though just to keep my options open.

I have the 25-50 eyepiece on my scope.

Also video might well be worth a try.
I have just upgraded my sd card so video is now more of an option.

Thanks again
Jim

Jim, why not use both? I use a compact camera when I want to grab a quick record shot. Shutter speeds are usually considerably faster with a compact which I often find means I don't need to use a shutter release or the timer. And you can use AF which saves time. If I want to spend more time on a more considered style of shooting, and hopefully get better IQ, or use video, then I use a DSLR.

Your 25-50 should be very good for digiscoping.

One of the reasons for wanting to use the dslr set up is that I only have a Samsung ES65 compact at the moment.

It has a 5x optical zoom and i'm not sure this would be suitable for digiscoping?

If it's not then I will look at buying a suitable compact that will do the job.
Also if I buy a suitable compact will the UCA still be suitable to connect the camera to the scope?

I will try out the video idea as soon as I get the chance.

Thanks again for your help Steve

Jim

JJ,

I tried it a few years back with a setup quite similar to yours. My scope was a Pentax and the camera was a Canon 50D. Same 50mm lens.

Autofocus wouldn't work and manual focus using live view was a nightmare. I finally gave up. Now I'm back at it using a MFT Olympus OM-D. Autofocus works perfectly.

Here are a few tips that may help you.

The Canon 50mm f/1.8 is a fast sharp lens. Be very careful if you connect it to an eyepiece using the PLASTIC filter thread. It is very easy to strip.

As Steve wrote, use the 2 or 10 s. shutter delay - il will reduce vibration. You can also use a cable release if you have one.

Shoot with the lens wide open and use as high a shutter speed as possible, cranking up the ISO if needed. Shoot in RAW, it will be easier to correct for noise.

Be gentle when the camera is attached to the scope. This is a weak link that can be damaged easily.

You will need to protect the LCD from the sun if you want to be able to focus. You can use a blanket or jacket over your head.

Welcome to the club.

JGobeil said:

JJ,

I tried it a few years back with a setup quite similar to yours. My scope was a Pentax and the camera was a Canon 50D. Same 50mm lens.

Autofocus wouldn't work and manual focus using live view was a nightmare. I finally gave up. Now I'm back at it using a MFT Olympus OM-D. Autofocus works perfectly.

Here are a few tips that may help you.

The Canon 50mm f/1.8 is a fast sharp lens. Be very careful if you connect it to an eyepiece using the PLASTIC filter thread. It is very easy to strip.

As Steve wrote, use the 2 or 10 s. shutter delay - il will reduce vibration. You can also use a cable release if you have one.

Shoot with the lens wide open and use as high a shutter speed as possible, cranking up the ISO if needed. Shoot in RAW, it will be easier to correct for noise.

Be gentle when the camera is attached to the scope. This is a weak link that can be damaged easily.

You will need to protect the LCD from the sun if you want to be able to focus. You can use a blanket or jacket over your head.

Welcome to the club.

Click to expand...

I think we generally agree Jules, but a couple of small points:

The Canon 50mm f1.8 (both versions) are well known for being a little soft wide open. From personal experience the range from f2.8-f4 is perhaps the optimum for a 50mm lens for digiscoping purposes, for two reasons. The first of these has already been mentioned (most lenses perform better stopped down a little), and the second is that I have experienced some vignetting in the corners with the Pentax (Takumar SMC) lens when stopped down to f5.6. It's interesteing with this lens to see the vignetting disappear at f4 on manually opening up the aperture.

I would assume that most lenses will cause some vignetting when stopped down to a certain level (to a varying degree, depending on the internal geometry of each design). Obviously, the difference between legacy lenses and modern AF lenses is that the iris in the latter will only actually stop down for a split second at the moment the shutter is closed. The aperture on legacy manual lenses remains constantly at the level set until you change it.

Interestingly the new Canon 40mm pancake performs at or close to its optimum sharpness when wide open, sharpening a little further by F4. It also, because of its short physical design, will help to bring the centre of gravity closer to the scope, allowing better balance. If I were using the UCA adapter this would be my ideal digiscoping lens instead of a 50mm, as I think it performs very well (at least with my scope).

Another variable is that whatever lens I've tried, and there have been a few, absolute sharpness is very hard to achieve, even when taking considerable time & effort to focus. This I believe is due to diffraction, caused by the scope's fixed small aperture, so don't ever expect perfection in digiscoping. Atmospherics at long range also play a large part in ruining IQ.

Lastly, AF is possible (in live view, using contrast detect AF which should prove to be more accurate than conventional AF) though bear in mind that the scope needs to first be pre-focussed to as close as you can get by sight. Then the camera's AF needs only has a small adjustment to find critical focus (less room for it to move in/out and hit the eyepiece.)

Thanks Steve and Jules for taking the time to reply

I'm certainly looking at buying a compact to give that a go as well as the dslr.

My main problems using the dslr set up with the limited times of trying have been trying to get sharp focus.
I adjust the scope to what looks sharp in the viewfinder and then when I get the shots on the pc they are only fit for deleting.
Same results when trying it with live view.


But I'm reading as much on the subject as I can and also looking at videos to try to get me more capable of achieving at least usable images.

Thanks also to Paul Hackett who has given me tips and ideas on each occasion I have met him recently.