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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Review of 8x25 Victory Pocket (2 Viewers)

Alexis, Would you be tempted to leave at home and for general observations the Zeiss 8x32, and take the little Victory 8x25?...
Yes, that's what I tried to say in my big review. I think this 8x25 can replace a top-end 8x32 for most applications.

...In your opinion have these two binoculars more coincidences than differences?
Thank you very much
Wachi
No, I think the Zeiss 8x32 FL and 8x25 Victory Pocket have _extremely_ different optical "personalities", and I like the 8x25 better. The view of the 8x25 Victory, in almost all respects, is more similar to the Leica 8x32 models than it is to the Zeiss 8x32 FL. The off-axis astigmatism and sensitivity to eye position of the 8x32 FL is more similar to the Zeiss 8x25 Terra ED (but in many other respects, e.g. FOV, those two bins are quite different).

I would be curious to know what any left-handed birders think of this offset design...
Well, as I noted, I think they work quite well left-handed, in fact in some ways better than right-handed (esp. for those with small hands). I'm not left-handed, but I do a lot of things left-handed because I am left-eyed. The older 8x20 model did not work well left handed because the bridge was much shorter overall, placing the focus under the right index finger and too close to the left.

--AP
 
I carry mine with me everyday now in my jacket pocket. I replaced the supplied strap with the excellent lightweight one supplied with the Leica Trinovid 8x20. I think it works better eyeglass wearers like myself. I’ve used it to view an Anna’s hummingbird 2m away, or a Great Egret 200m away in a drizzle, and it performed flawlessly in both cases.
 
Well, as I noted, I think they work quite well left-handed, in fact in some ways better than right-handed (esp. for those with small hands). I'm not left-handed, but I do a lot of things left-handed because I am left-eyed. The older 8x20 model did not work well left handed because the bridge was much shorter overall, placing the focus under the right index finger and too close to the left.

--AP[/QUOTE]
I should have read that bit more closely!
 
..and for non eyeglass wearers, how it´s ?
Wachi.

It will have the usual pocket roof problem of eyecups that are too small in diameter to be comfortable (since they fit inside the orbit rather than around it). Also, there is the (these days all too common) risk (depending on your face shape) that the eyecups will be too short.

--AP
 
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The strap a.k.a. the shoestring? Yes, that's a good simple solution, maybe a bit less comfortable with this weight.

Yes, that one. I don’t understand why Leica switched to a worse ribbon-like design on the Ultravid 8x20. It is somewhat elastic, which helps with the weight, even if it isn’t as comfortable as the Zeiss strap. It is so much less bulky, and has tiny but effective YKK quick-detach clips.
 
It's a made-in-Japan Zeiss-labeled Leica 8x32 Trinovid BN

With spring woodland passerine migration picking up and shorebird migration going strong, I've been putting the Zeiss 8x25 Victory Pocket to the test in variety of conditions for fast-paced birding. It hasn't yet let me down functionally, and it is furthermore a delight to use. The view is almost identical to one of my all time favorites--the Leica 8x32 Trinovid BN--and its fit to the hand is also very similar to that bin. It nestles deep and secure in the palm, with the curved underside of the bridge a perfect match to my thumb and with my little finger comfortably curled around the end on the barrel, allowing for very stable holding despite the light weight. Besides the lighter weight and better eye relief for glasses, it really reminds me of the Leica 8x32 BN so much I can't get over it. Performance against the light is outstanding, by the way.

Yes, for me, this is certainly one of the great birding bins of all time. I've owned and made heavy use of many bins for birding. My short list of favorites to date are as follows:

Zeiss 7x42 BGATP
Leica 8x32 BN
Swarovski 8.5x42 EL SV of recent vintage
with an honorable mention to the Leica 8x20 Ultravid BL

For butterflying+birding, or just butterflying, my list is as follows:

Pentax 6.5x21 Papilio II
Zeiss 8x32 FL
with an honorable mention to the B&L 8x42 Elite (waterproof version)

I think I will be adding the Zeiss 8x25 Victory Pocket to _both_ lists.

--AP
 
Yes, for me, this is certainly one of the great birding bins of all time.
I'm glad you're enjoying your VP so much. It's great when something really clicks that way. That's the most appealing pocket bino I've seen, and the reasons it didn't work for me were ergonomic (I don't wear eyeglasses) not optical. I just decided to get larger pockets.
 
What makes the Zeiss 8x25 Victory Pocket seem like a bigger bin?

Having spent considerable time over another 10 days using the Zeiss 8x25 Victory in a variety of conditions, I must first say that it continues to astound. I can't get over the view--it's just _so_ easy and _so_ high quality. I have never seen such performance in a bin smaller than 8x32, and I've seen plenty of 8x32 that were not so good. This bin really feels, both to my eyes and in my hands, like a much larger binocular. I've been trying to understand what it is about its optical performance that I find so compelling, and the basis of that performance. I don't think I have all the answers yet, but I think a lot of the magic is in the oculars. They seem very forgiving about eye placement, both with respect to obtaining the view and delivering an undegraded view despite imperfect eye alignment. Eye-relief is also quite generous, making this bin a more comfortable fit for me than any other 8x20 to 8x32 sized bin that I've tried excepting the Swarovski 8x32 EL SV. But the awesome performance comes from more than just these two factors. It is as if these bins deliver the view to the back of my eye directly, without the usual degradation and visual noise from lateral light, reflections from my glasses, etc. When using small bins (and large bins too), I generally take pains to block lateral light as best I can with a hat and my hands in order to preserve as much contrast in the view as possible--a procedure that is generally crucial for extracting good performance from pocket bins. When such pains are not taken, small bins can be hard to see through, and a sloppy effort generates a view that may at best be acceptable in the center but that is highly compromised by reflections and reduced contrast towards the periphery. By comparison, even without my hat and cupped hands, the view through the Zeiss 8x25 Victory Pocket is bright and contrasty to the edge of its (by pocket bin standards) wide field, which is crisply defined by blackness from the field stop. I've tested the Victory pocket with what would normally be irritating off-axis light from all sorts of different angles, and so far I can't find a situation in which it is challenged. I see _exceedingly_ little glare through the bin in tricky lighting from light entering the bin through the objective end (They'd have had no trouble with Dennis' goats (or sheep???) on the mountain/cliff side), and moreover, the bin seems not to have any issues with reflections from light entering from the ocular side. Perhaps it is control of reflections and stray light on the ocular end that is the secret to the Zeiss 8x25 Victory Pocket's ability to impress me so much.

--AP
 
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Recently I have been looking for a smaller more portable bin that I can fit into a jacket or hoody pocket when I dont want to carry a camera bag but want to bring both a camera and binocular on walks. The Leica 8x32 UVHD+'s are a little big for some of my jackets and all of my hoodies, plus my wife ends up taking those out anyway. I also have a pair of 8x30w habichts, but those are a bit more bulky.

I started with a demo 8x30 Maven B3, but after just a couple of days, it was sent back for a variety of reasons, including its size that wasn't all that much better than the Leica. I had considered the new Swaro 8x30 CL B, but that was even larger and sounded like it has its own issues for what I want in a bin.

Then I saw this thread about the Victory Pocket and another thread where I could get a discount on a pair of 8x25 Victory Pockets, and the rest is history. I've had them for maybe a week now, and I would echo pretty much everything Alexis has said. Their ability to deal with tricky lighting that would make most binoculars glare/flare up is some of the best. I might even go so far as to say they are as good if not better than the UVHD+'s which are known for being very glare resistant. The occulars themselves are fantastic as noted. Even when holding the bins away from my face, while trying to get them to flare, a clean picture is displayed.

I do have a few complaints, but none of which will cause me to return them. Certainly these things are keepers and view like bigger bins.
[*] The diopter and focus knob feel terribly cheap. Like old fade and balance knobs on a cheap car radio bad. (minus the detents) Or possibly like servo control offsets on an RC controller. Just very fiddly cheap feeling, especially the detent on the diopter. Using the focuser with gloves would be annoying as well.
[*] The eye relief is enormous....or rather, the eyecups do not extend anywhere near close for me to get a good solid mount to my eye sockets. I have to rest them on my bridge or use my hands to brace between my face. BUT, eye placement is so easy that blackouts really arent a big problem. I have some extra eyecups on order to attempt to remedy this. Fingers crossed and will report back.
[*] The case, it's very bulky. Personally, I'd have prefered a simple pouch like Maven provides as I carry these in a camera bag or my coat pocket without a strap attached. For its intended purpose though, the case is a neat idea. One should be able to place it on a belt and essentially have a dedicate pocket to put them in. They're relatively secure inside even with the zipper mostly open and the mag latch/strap shut (obviously dont do this if you're rock scrambling or jogging).

Really though, their picture is amazing. Bright (for a 25mm obj), neutral whites with nicely saturated colors, good contrast, sharp to the edge (more than the UVHD+), and in such a small yet fantastically ergonomic package (minus the teeny plastic focus knob). And the glare resistance....superb. And the FOV...I cant tell a difference between the 32mm Leica or 30mm habicht. Granted, those are on the low end of "wide", but it's nice not to give up anything noticeable with the 25mm obj pocket model. Just fantastic bins.
 
...The diopter and focus knob feel terribly cheap. Like old fade and balance knobs on a cheap car radio bad. (minus the detents) Or possibly like servo control offsets on an RC controller. Just very fiddly cheap feeling, especially the detent on the diopter. Using the focuser with gloves would be annoying as well...

pechelman,

Thanks for your evaluation. I'd be interested in more details of your objections to the focus. I prefer larger diameter focus knobs than are found on pocket roofs (since they are designed to fold to a small package), which I think is part of your complaint. This one is at least wider (though shorter) than the knob on my Leica 8x20 Ultravid and is much easier to access than the knob on the Swarovski 8x25 CL Pocket. However, I don't find the feel cheap. Mine turns very smoothly, with no slop/backlash, is slightly damped, feels very even across the range, and seems entirely solid (no sideways wiggle, flex, etc). In those respects, it fits my preferences, so apart from diameter, I'm totally happy. I agree that the diopter setting is rather crude. Luckily, I'm happy with the zero setting at the firm detent.

--AP
 
Alexis,
My complaints about the focus knob are in regards to the tactile qualities of the plastic used and the small diameter. Also, I'm also rather unfairly? comparing this knob to more full size knobs/wheels like on the 8x30 habicht, leica uvhd, and a pair of old 7x42 dialyts.

As a mechanical engineer, I'm more of a function over form guy anyway, so I'm not too hung up on the feel, because as you say, I quite like the action of the focusing as well. It has nice damping, an even ratio, no wiggles in any direction, fast action, and I never find myself sawing for perfect focus. I have little doubt the mechanism itself inside the binocular is well executed. However, with that same smooth damping combined with the small diameter of the knob creates a torque input requirement that is qualitatively a bit greater than I feel is accommodated by the shallow and beveled serration/knurling of the knob. It works OK. Just OK.

Really though, I am being exceptionally critical here. I do feel this is one area where I think they could have done a bit better with very minimal effort, and I'd have been willing to pay the extra ~5-25$ to get a knob with a bit better grip.

Hope that helps clarify.

Best regards,
Phil
 
Yes, I get what you mean. With my unit, if the focus operation were just the least bit more resistant, I'd be making the same complaint. I am always surprised that the focus works as well as it does, and I think that you've identified the reason for that surprise/uneasiness.

Unfortunately, the position of the knob does't allow for fitting a larger knob over the existing one. It might accept a thin knurled skin, but nothing more substantial. Yet another limitation of the unorthodox hinge design.

--AP
 
Few updates

I spent a bit more time getting a feel for the focusing knob. I do feel I am overstating how hard/easy it is to turn, especially after picking up the habicht and dialyts. It's within their range, but do still wish it had a bit more grip like on the traditionally knurled/serrated wheels on those older designs. One thing that I did notice is that the effort to focus CW toward infinity takes every so slightly more effort that in does to turn it CCW to close focus minimum. My guess is this is a result of an anti-backlash spring in the system. They did a good job at tuning it, because it's hardly noticeable.

I dont wear corrective glasses, but I do frequently wear sunglasses. With the eyecups adjusted to the lowest setting, the view from the bins is simply amazing in terms of eye relief. Maybe I lucked out with the sunglasses I wear, but I couldnt ask for a better picture. Fantastic!

In one of the last posts, I mentioned an experiment with ordering some eyecups to help out the eye relief without glasses as they extended position is a tad short for me. A quick amazon search led me to a pair of these which just arrived this afternoon. They are a snug fit over the stock eyecups, but they do fit nice enough. With the cup unrolled, they're terrible looking, uncomfortable, and much too long, but rolled back, they are perfect for me. They dont look terrible imo. What's more important, is they allow a perfect mount to my eyes everytime with the bin fully supported. What's even better, is that it doesnt seem to have degraded the performace when wearing my sunglasses that much or at all. If that "forgiving eye placement" characteristic hasnt sunk in yet, it should have by now :)

Anyway, I'm absolutely trilled with these things. I'd put their performance right there next to the Leica 8x32 UVHD+'s in pretty much every aspect except low light. And they're sharper away from the axis, have less CA, almost the same FOV, more eye relief, as good or better glare/flare control, and at a size that's so tiny at a fraction of the cost. Compared to the Maven B3, I feel even more strongly that these little 8x25's are the better optic unless you absolutely need a brighter image for dusk/dawn than a 25mm objective can deliver. Hard to argue with these little victories.

And yes. That is a crown royal bag that I'm using for the storage pouch I wish these things came with. May keep an eye out for another solution, maybe a ski goggle pouch?, but for now this works OK.
 

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...Anyway, I'm absolutely trilled with these things. I'd put their performance right there next to the Leica 8x32 UVHD+'s in pretty much every aspect except low light. And they're sharper away from the axis, have less CA, almost the same FOV, more eye relief, as good or better glare/flare control, and at a size that's so tiny at a fraction of the cost...

Yes, unbelievable, right? I own quite a few premium bins, and the technologies involved are supposedly quite mature, with little room for improvement, but these little Zeiss 8x25 Victory are like nothing I've ever seen before, and (for the time being) are in a class by themselves. What makes them so good? Seriously...I've been pretty jaded for quite a while (Like, how much better are my Swarovski 8.5x42 EL SV than my Zeiss 7x42 BGATP? Answer: not much) but I just can't get over the performance of this little bin.

--AP
 
A couple questions:
- Will it fit in the bag for the Maven B3? I like their bags.
- What is the outer diameter of the stock eyecup?

This thread is a bad influence. Now I'm thinking about visiting a dealer for a side-by-side comparison with my B3. Sounds like it could be a costly experiment.

Thanks,
Alan
 
Alan
You could probably fit 2 8x25's into the B3 maven bag....unfolded. Fold them down, and I bet you could fit 4. I dont have the bag here anymore, returned it a while ago with the bins, but I recall the bag being pretty generous.

The outer diameter of the stock eyecup measured right around 33mm or 1.3 inches for me.

Hope that helps.

Phil
 

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