Bunting ? (1 Viewer)

jurek · Apr 23, 2005

Looks like male Reed Bunting which, unusually, developed black head only in part of face while the rest stayed in winter plumage.

Jane Turner · Apr 23, 2005

I'd be curious to know from PWG if that crown pattern (pale super ,rusty lateral crown strips and grey medial crown stripe) and huge grey nape band visible in the second pic looked like that in the field because I can's see any way how a non abberantly plumages Reed Bunt could show these features by simply having a delayed moult.

I'd also like to know how it called and was it acting like a Reed Bunting.

Edward woodwood · Apr 23, 2005

those first two pix are very strange

why the chestnut areas if it's a Reed Bunt?

the pale areas in pix one and two are very blown out appearing much whiter than they would in the field

Tim

PWG · Apr 23, 2005

Thanks for your help so far I'm glad it's not just me that's confused.

OK I'll see if I can answer some of the questions.
1. The first two pics are slightly lighter than in real life but couldn't give an accurate estimate as to how much lighter.

2. Between 1,2 & 3,4,5 I lost sight of the bird courtesy of a local dog and am assuming same bird due to the similarity of pattern.

3. Some differences will occur due to the first two being on the ground and for whatever reason it was stretching up. When on the wire it was looking more down and obviously I'm looking from a lot lower angle.

4. As for behaviour I saw it for only a very short period of time and not familiar enough with the behaviour of reed buntings to say either way. It didn't call that I could distinguish so unable to help there either.

hope any of this helps.

Jane Turner · Apr 23, 2005

Well not really... but thanks!

Lucky Birder · Apr 23, 2005

Based on what PWG says, I'm not convinced 1&2 and 3,4,5 are the same bird, unless he saw enough in the field to convince. I'm amazed that so many people on this thread see this as a Reed Bunting. I'm with Tim and Jane, i.e 1&2 is either not a Reed Bunting or it's a highly aberrant one.

RecoveringScot · Apr 23, 2005

Lucky Birder said:
Based on what PWG says, I'm not convinced 1&2 and 3,4,5 are the same bird, unless he saw enough in the field to convince. I'm amazed that so many people on this thread see this as a Reed Bunting. I'm with Tim and Jane, i.e 1&2 is either not a Reed Bunting or it's a highly aberrant one.

I actually think it's a (? first-summer) male Rustic Bunting which has not yet completed its journey into full spring plumage.

Looking at the photo on the wires and having lightened it I compared it with the picture on page 369 of Collins, it looks like a slightly pale version of that bird.

Lucky Birder · Apr 24, 2005

Good shout RS, I think that's possible. It might be a Rustic in a transitional state. I've only ever seen female/immature and full males. Does anyone else subscribe to the Rustic theory?

Jane Turner · Apr 24, 2005

Last night I was wondering whether there were Rustic Genes in the first bird.... but its can't be a pure one -the fore super is missing and the malar is black. My last and most far fetched theory..... not don't laugh... was Pallas's Reed (to explain the black in the head and mantle lines) x Rustic to explain all the chestnut... not even sure if they come into contact!

I'm not getting Rustic head-shape off the first photo, though that culmen looks straighter every time I look at it.

I've sent the pics to a few Bunting experts... we shall see!

Lucky Birder · Apr 24, 2005

Yes, I was worrying about the lack of super too.

Jane Turner · Apr 24, 2005

If only the bird had grey lesser coverts you could almost build a case for Pallas's Reed Bunting... then again assuming the bird in 3-5 is the same, those breast streaks are a bit unfortunate too. Its the grey nape band and black/white mantle lines that give the PRB impresion I think. From what I can tell the fringes of PWB are rustier/more chestnuty that Reed Bunt - though that is off one pic in BWP. Off to google.... I also have a feeling there may be mileage in Eastern Races of Reed Bunting.

alcedo.atthis · Apr 24, 2005

"Rustic Genes in the first bird???"

One may have to look slightly further a field, Asia perhaps, to find most of the qualities in this bird, if all pictures do relate to one bird. Having played with the photo's, there does seem to be a few anomalies.

Regards

Malky (Thinking out aloud, that the bird on the ground has a Sparrow like posture)

Jane Turner · Apr 24, 2005

Its funny you should say that Malky, apart from the fact all the colours are in the wrong place, it reminds me a lot of Rufous-collared Sparrow. But as far as I can see that is a Bunting bill as opposed to new world sparrow. I'd certainly like to have studied this in the field... was it tail flicking/spreading like a reed bunt for instance.

Well whatever it is its interesting.. been looking at Eastern Reed Buntings... They are very different!

Pallas'
http://www2.kongju.ac.kr/srcho/pintail/2003/feb/data08/a012.jpg
http://www2.kongju.ac.kr/srcho/pintail/2003/feb/data08/a013.jpg

Eastern Reed Bunting (in Feb - so you need to wear off a few more tips!)
http://www2.kongju.ac.kr/srcho/pintail/2003/feb/data08/a023.jpg
http://www2.kongju.ac.kr/srcho/pintail/2003/feb/data08/a053.jpg

timmyjones · Apr 24, 2005

Isnt it the eastern race got a beefy bill

mountain man · Apr 24, 2005

House Sparrow x Pallas's Reed Bunting

Lucky Birder · Apr 24, 2005

tom mckinney said:
House Sparrow x Pallas's Reed Bunting

Can birds of different families interbreed, or is that tongue in cheek?

mountain man · Apr 24, 2005

No just kidding.

However, House Sparrow is the only thing I can think of to explain the grey crown/nape and rusty sides.

On the subject of interbreeding, Little and Pied-billed Grebe have produced hybrid young. Little being Tachybaptus and Pied-billed being Podilymbus, they are strictly different families. So maybe I am correct...

... or maybe not.

mountain man · Apr 24, 2005

Have a look through these:

http://stevenround-birdphotography.com/Bunting, Reed.htm

Plenty of evidence in there for this bird being Reed. (Albeit with some House Sparrow genes in there somewhere...)

Lucky Birder · Apr 24, 2005

tom mckinney said:
No just kidding.

However, House Sparrow is the only thing I can think of to explain the grey crown/nape and rusty sides.

On the subject of interbreeding, Little and Pied-billed Grebe have produced hybrid young. Little being Tachybaptus and Pied-billed being Podilymbus, they are strictly different families. So maybe I am correct...

Just different genera I think - not different families

Edward woodwood · Apr 24, 2005

still puzzled
gone thru all the buntings with no success
I initially checked the sparrows as that seemed the only possibility but it doesn't properly fit any of these unless as Malky noted there is something a little bit 'odd' with pix one and two. Shape of head looks good for a Passer

can't see it being anything to do with Rustic either. grey crown and chestnut lateral crown stripes don't fit anything but House Sparrow!

Tim

Bunting ? (1 Viewer)

Well-known member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Notts Birder

Well-known member

Attachments

Notts Birder

Well-known member

Notts Birder

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Guest

Notts Birder

Guest

Guest

Notts Birder

Member

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread