The Rise of the Phwitcher (2 Viewers)

John Cantelo · May 9, 2018

OK let's get one thing out of the way, most photographers most of the time behave sensibly and with due regard to the birds and birders. This, it seems to me, is particularly true of birders turned photographers who know the drill and birding etiquette.

The increasing availability and relatively low cost of digital gear, though, appears to have seen the rise in what I call 'phwitchers' - people who chase the local rarities/scarcities for a photo but evidently have little idea about birds, their responsibilities or obligations. Often (but not always) they can be identified by having long-lenses or bridge camera but no bins. For the most part, they're happy to learn and do no harm (although do tend to hog space in hides).

However, there seems a subset whose lack of awareness, skills and reluctance to do the right thing can cause much friction and potential harm. Earlier this week, despite clear forum rules against doing so, one such posted photos of a Peregrine with the caption "Not sure if these Peregrine have used it (i.e. an old Raven's nest on which the bird was perched). I'll find out once the young start to show".. . When I questioned his doing so I got the jaw-droppingly crass reply “I never said it was an active nest. I said once the young start to show I'll know”. (The post was quickly removed, thankfully). I've even had reports of such folks sitting in groups above an active Peregrine's nest taking photos & refusing to move. Still more worryingly, threatening a birder who asked them to move on a second occasion with a baseball bat or stave. Unfortunately, the police seem very reluctant to get involved (even in the latter case) so what should we birders do? Most are open to reason but some are not ...

gerald762 · May 12, 2018

You could almost be describing me! I have enjoyed looking at birds most of my life but only recently, after retirement, has it become one of my main interests. I have also bought a camera and long lens, but for me they are a great help in indentifying what I have seen. I am not good at instant identification so a good picture does allow me to try and identify various birds at leisure at home.
However I always carry binoculars and am very careful not to cause any disturbance to the birds, and certainly don't go chasing rarities. It is really quite sad that some people are only interested in ticking off a name on a list, with photograph, without actually observing them properly. How does one change this approach? I have no idea!! Has anyone got any suggestions?

fugl · May 12, 2018

gerald762 said:
. . .. It is really quite sad that some people are only interested in ticking off a name on a list, with photograph, without actually observing them properly. . . .

Or without photograph. Applies to some twitchers as well, I’m sorry to say.

Julie50 · May 12, 2018

The ones which annoy me are those who arrive in response to a sighting, hang out of the hide trying to get the shot, then noisily get out again on to the next one!
They block the views of those of us patiently watching all of the wildlife on show and more importantly risk disturbing it!

J

Farnboro John · May 12, 2018

FWIW I don't think its limited to non-birding photographers. I bird at Thursley Common quite a lot and the number of families with whom I have remonstrated about children being allowed and even encouraged to try to catch lizards on the boardwalks is immense. Most of the discussions are amicable, the families learn something (lizards tail-dropping to aid escape is a good one for stopping them) and even say thank you: but the odd one doesn't.

Its the same with dogs off leads in the nesting season: there are signs all over the common, it isn't possible to get onto the common without seeing them. They think it means every dog except theirs. Of course, Thursley is stockbroker belt and most of these people are Tories with Labs and Springers rather than chavs with bull terriers of dubious pedigree, but they still have no feeling for countryside or nature whatever: plus they have a sense of entitlement. So I warn them earnestly about the risks to dogs of suddenly coming across an Adder out on the common, naturally mentioning that Adders are strictly protected by law.

The trouble is that many people simply don't care about anything but themselves and their own pleasure. Everything exists to be entertainment.

Once I had to deal with a chap flying a drone from the boardwalk at dusk in the Nightjar display season, who tried to tell me he didn't need a license from the National Trust to do so.... I explained the Wildlife and Countryside Act to him.

John

Bubbs · May 12, 2018

It’s about time hides were handed back to the people they were built for....birdwatchers. And never ever remonstrate with dog owners. There would be less fuss if you kidnapped their children.

kb57 · May 12, 2018

I don't have a problem with photographers in general, possibly because I've become a bit of a one myself. I do however fail to understand how you can get by without binoculars, and in many habitats a scope too. It's like nothing out of camera range is of interest...

I do think it is generally positive how a lot of people have become interested in birds through photography, even if I question the extent of that interest sometimes. I'm thinking of the crowds we encountered in Hokkaido recently at places like Ito Tancho and Otawa Bridge, photographing cranes, and at Furen Lake with the sea eagle feeding, shutters rattling away at a collective million frames per second. On our second visit to Ito Tancho, having already got more crane photos than we could ever reasonably desire, we went to the almost empty visitor centre and spent time using their (excellent Kowa Prominar) scopes, reading rings, and looking up their records of when and where they fledged. Staff seemed genuinely pleased we were showing an interest which extended beyond photography, especially when my wife found one which wasn't on the recent sightings board.

Andy Adcock · May 12, 2018

kb57 said:
I don't have a problem with photographers in general, possibly because I've become a bit of a one myself. I do however fail to understand how you can get by without binoculars, and in many habitats a scope too. It's like nothing out of camera range is of interest...

I do think it is generally positive how a lot of people have become interested in birds through photography, even if I question the extent of that interest sometimes. I'm thinking of the crowds we encountered in Hokkaido recently at places like Ito Tancho and Otawa Bridge, photographing cranes, and at Furen Lake with the sea eagle feeding, shutters rattling away at a collective million frames per second. On our second visit to Ito Tancho, having already got more crane photos than we could ever reasonably desire, we went to the almost empty visitor centre and spent time using their (excellent Kowa Prominar) scopes, reading rings, and looking up their records of when and where they fledged. Staff seemed genuinely pleased we were showing an interest which extended beyond photography, especially when my wife found one which wasn't on the recent sightings board.

A couple of places we visited in Costa Rica, were basically overrun with photographers to the extent that there was no room for anyone else.

Cinchona was one place and I ended up having a ding dong with the tour leader. The problem here was the limited space, birds were at less than 10m on feeders but all the snappers had tripods deployed inside the cafe, it was hopeless.

The other thing with photographers, is that they won't give way for others to take a turn viewing, they'll stay until they have the perfect shot and that can be all day.

A

Farnboro John · May 12, 2018

andyadcock said:
The other thing with photographers, is that they won't give way for others to take a turn viewing, they'll stay until they have the perfect shot and that can be all day.

A

This is absolutely not limited to photographers, as I and many others know from bitter experience. But I do agree that everyone seeing a bird outweighs any other consideration.... when its queue for a two minute look that has to mean everybody.

John

Bubbs · May 12, 2018

I no longer visit bird reserves with hides simply because of the bloody noise of camera drives. How many hundreds of photographs do you need of a Green Sandpiper 300 metres away?

Farnboro John · May 12, 2018

Bubbs said:
I no longer visit bird reserves with hides simply because of the bloody noise of camera drives. How many hundreds of photographs do you need of a Green Sandpiper 300 metres away?

If you're in a hide and the birds are still 300 metres away its not a very good reserve! Take your point though, at that range you are not going to take the image that wins Wildlife Photographer of the Year. :t:

John

Paul Chapman · May 13, 2018

People with all sorts of individual interests in nature do stupid things. The real evil would be an argument between the minority - I still believe that it is a minority despite our likely self-selection peer group - who feel locations like Thursley are important which means the majority - who would develop it for housing - win. RSPB membership is encouraging but.....

I use that as a hypothetical example rather than a specific location. In some countries, the proportion of people interested in nature is tiny.

The key lies in education and concerns should be about the increasing pace of loss of marginal habitat - particularly hedgerows, creep by tidying, etc - which I feel is producing an increasing pace for biodiversity collapse. I fear what we will see in our lifetimes.

All the best

Andy Adcock · May 13, 2018

To add to the original post, there is a group of, hmmm, not sure of the term but it's not really birder, anyway.

Instead of learning about birds, they just want pictures for other people to identify and often, usually even, the pictures are terrible!

I can see the allure that as a birder, you want a shot of some rarity or spectacular exotic from a foreign trip but every man and his dog now has a camera. One advantage I suppose is that we have images of some birds, rarely photographed, if ever, but photographers are pushing birders out in some places, especially abroad as per my experience in Costa Rica. The Americas do seem badly afflicted as do parts of Asia and interestingly, several of the groups we encountered on CR, were Asians.

The first time I ever saw photographers en-masse was in Taiwan at the Pheasant sites, hundreds of cameras and apart from ours, no binoculars anywhere to be seen. In some places I suppose, we have photographers to thank for being able to see some birds, the afore mentioned Pheasants, numerous Antpittas in the Americas which are baited, I think originally for photographers (?) and now the same is happpening to some Asian Pittas.

I haven't so far, enncountered this 'problem' in Africa.

At the bigger reserves, perhaps we may see a future where we have separate hides for birders and photographers?

A

Farnboro John · May 13, 2018

andyadcock said:
I haven't so far, enncountered this 'problem' in Africa.

At the bigger reserves, perhaps we may see a future where we have separate hides for birders and photographers?

A

Surely this problem has been in Africa for years? All those tales of Leopards up trees surrounded by 4WD.... also "bear jams" in Yellowstone/Jackson and convoys of jeeps by every Tiger in India. Its not new or localised: the togs are just finding new subjects.

As for the last suggestion, as a birder who takes photos using decent equipment it has taken me years to afford, I think not. Unless you are suggesting that birders, with scopes that have enormous optical reach, are to be confined to hides most distant from the action?

But expect sensible behaviour of me when a twitch is in progress: turn and turn about is fair, hogging the views is not. o

John

Andy Adcock · May 13, 2018

Farnboro John said:
Surely this problem has been in Africa for years? All those tales of Leopards up trees surrounded by 4WD.... also "bear jams" in Yellowstone/Jackson and convoys of jeeps by every Tiger in India. Its not new or localised: the togs are just finding new subjects.

As for the last suggestion, as a birder who takes photos using decent equipment it has taken me years to afford, I think not. Unless you are suggesting that birders, with scopes that have enormous optical reach, are to be confined to hides most distant from the action?

But expect sensible behaviour of me when a twitch is in progress: turn and turn about is fair, hogging the views is not. o

John

1. I was speaking of birds as subject matter, I've never seen organised groups, set up around bird feeders in Africa. The scenario around Leopards etc, is not peculiar to photographers, most in said vehicles are just tourists with cameras rather than photographic tours.

2. Length of your lens (no eupemism intended

) is irrelevant in a hide, it's down to behaviour, habits and as others have said, the sound of a dozen cameras going off at speed, adds nothing to the experience for others.

I'm not anti photographer, some of you will know that my wife is pretty good, the occasional photographer isn't a problem but I fear that the time is coming for an eradication programme, they're just too abundant now and a threat to other species......8-P

A

Farnboro John · May 13, 2018

andyadcock said:
1. I was speaking of birds as subject matter, I've never seen organised groups, set up around bird feeders in Africa. The scenario around Leopards etc, is not peculiar to photographers, most in said vehicles are just tourists with cameras rather than photographic tours.

2. Length of your lens (no eupemism intended ) is irrelevant in a hide, it's down to behaviour, habits and as others have said, the sound of a dozen cameras going off at speed, adds nothing to the experience for others.

I'm not anti photographer, some of you will know that my wife is pretty good, the occasional photographer isn't a problem but I fear that the time is coming for an eradication programme, they're just too abundant now and a threat to other species......8-P

A

1. That's pretty much the point I was making.... a blocking crowd is a blocking crowd. It doesn't have to be photographers to be annoying.

2. Nor do loud children, loud birders discussing football, their previous/forthcoming trips/LGRE, people who let the door bang, people who can't walk quietly, people with strong garlic sausage sandwiches and so on. Get over it, frankly.

3. It is normal for hobbies to change over time and birding is no exception. If you feel out of step because other hide users are no longer like you, that is quite normal and not something to worry about. Remain confident and enjoy your own birding: reminisce about when you were mainstream.

Good birding

John

Andy Adcock · May 13, 2018

Farnboro John said:
1. That's pretty much the point I was making.... a blocking crowd is a blocking crowd. It doesn't have to be photographers to be annoying.

2. Nor do loud children, loud birders discussing football, their previous/forthcoming trips/LGRE, people who let the door bang, people who can't walk quietly, people with strong garlic sausage sandwiches and so on. Get over it, frankly.

3. It is normal for hobbies to change over time and birding is no exception. If you feel out of step because other hide users are no longer like you, that is quite normal and not something to worry about. Remain confident and enjoy your own birding: reminisce about when you were mainstream.

Good birding

John

Totally missed my point.....

Many in hides are not primarily birders anymore, you seem to be taking this personally so I'll leave you to it.

A

Farnboro John · May 13, 2018

andyadcock said:
Totally missed my point.....

Many in hides are not primarily birders anymore, you seem to be taking this personally so I'll leave you to it.

A

I get your point, I just don't agree with it. Hides still have plenty of birders in them, and many have cameras: DSLRs, Micro 4/3 (whatever that is....) bridges, point and shoots, digiscoping set ups, phonescopes... Photographers who aren't birders are the minority. Increasingly, birders who don't take any photographs at all (even if its just with their phone) are also a minority.

The other kind of non-birders in hides are those making at least a little effort to find out about wildlife, or whether wildlife watching is for them, before making the sort of commitment represented by equipment purchase. Rejecting them is wrong: wildlife needs all the friends it can get. This includes places abroad that make efforts to attract birds for the benefit of all those wishing to see or record them by whatever means. When those quick easy access points get overwhelmed by demand, its unfortunate, but surely nobody is in the wrong?

John

Chosun Juan · May 13, 2018

John Cantelo said:
OK let's get one thing out of the way, most photographers most of the time behave sensibly and with due regard to the birds and birders. This, it seems to me, is particularly true of birders turned photographers who know the drill and birding etiquette.

The increasing availability and relatively low cost of digital gear, though, appears to have seen the rise in what I call 'phwitchers' - people who chase the local rarities/scarcities for a photo but evidently have little idea about birds, their responsibilities or obligations. Often (but not always) they can be identified by having long-lenses or bridge camera but no bins. For the most part, they're happy to learn and do no harm (although do tend to hog space in hides).

However, there seems a subset whose lack of awareness, skills and reluctance to do the right thing can cause much friction and potential harm. Earlier this week, despite clear forum rules against doing so, one such posted photos of a Peregrine with the caption "Not sure if these Peregrine have used it (i.e. an old Raven's nest on which the bird was perched). I'll find out once the young start to show".. . When I questioned his doing so I got the jaw-droppingly crass reply “I never said it was an active nest. I said once the young start to show I'll know”. (The post was quickly removed, thankfully). I've even had reports of such folks sitting in groups above an active Peregrine's nest taking photos & refusing to move. Still more worryingly, threatening a birder who asked them to move on a second occasion with a baseball bat or stave. Unfortunately, the police seem very reluctant to get involved (even in the latter case) so what should we birders do? Most are open to reason but some are not ...

John,

This just seems to me further evidence of "The end of civilization as we know it" https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=357243

I am one of these long lensed photographing birders of which you speak (though neither really a photographer or a birder - I just like being in nature and knowing what I'm looking at !

I draw the line at disturbing other living critters etc (read about the lengths I went to, to get the kangaroo photos in my gallery!

I really don't like the clattering of the shutter either (can't wait for decent mirrorless to get rid of that) .... I really like the critters to go about their business without any influence from me whatsoever.

It's all too easy for birds to desert their territory if disturbed anywhere along the breeding process. The huge, powerful, and bold Wedge-tailed Eagles are notoriously fickle and wary and prone to disturbance.

The incident you describe with the peregrines is disgusting. Surely there are laws or something protecting them from kn*b*nds who disturb them?

I would suggest chucking rocks at them .... no doubt the long arm of the law would soon arrive - trouble is you'd probably be the one to get arrested!
Or you might try photographing their faces, and then ask them their names - telling them that you want to make sure you get their id's correct for when you post them on the dc*kh**d blog !

Chosun :gh:

jurek · May 14, 2018

I think reserves should be contacted and give some regulations to photographers. Especially no blocking the view for others, no lingering for long period (when the hide fills up, establish one-minute rule or so) and no approaching birds closer for the purpose of photography.

Birdwatchers are affected several ways. Besides the annoyance, bird information is withdrawn and trails are closed mostly because of the disturbance by photographers. I understand that birdwatchers can disturb the birds too. However the effect of photography is much worse when people try to come as close as possible for a frame-filling view, try to call the bird, and make long photo-sessions, sometimes lasting for an hour or more.

I, too, remember some crazy scenes from Chiang Mai with Chinese photographers. Baiting sites where birds are invisible, because the view is blocked by photography tents touching each other side to side. People putting literally kilograms of mealworms every day in one place to photograph Burmese Pheasants. Photographers making good job of annoying each other, because they scared the birds hoping for other species to come, or started talking loudly disturbing the scene for others. And literally 1,000s of photos posted on the internet every single day (out of 100,000s taken by a crowd of a hundred of photographers). When the people get bored with any more bird photographs?

The Rise of the Phwitcher (2 Viewers)

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