Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
Anas scirpaceus? :eek!:8-P
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African Reed Warbler (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Blue Kangaroo
- Start date
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Get a faecal or feather sample and pay for DNA analysis.
opisska
rabid twitcher
So that's a "no" on the field marks, right?
BTW. I just yesterday spoke with my friends who happen to be evolutionary biologists - people who do DNA analysis on a daily basis. I was discussing with them the potential for abusing their lab for animal ID and they were quite sceptical about the prospects of working from poop - yet it seems ornithologist do that all the time, which is interesting. We were talking about mammals though (where they said an easy way is to swab their mouth). More interestingly, they told us that affordable home devices for reasonably reliable DNA analysis are basically a few years away now
Richard Prior
Halfway up an Alp
So that's a "no" on the field marks, right?
BTW. I just yesterday spoke with my friends who happen to be evolutionary biologists - people who do DNA analysis on a daily basis. I was discussing with them the potential for abusing their lab for animal ID and they were quite sceptical about the prospects of working from poop - yet it seems ornithologist do that all the time, which is interesting. We were talking about mammals though (where they said an easy way is to swab their mouth). More interestingly, they told us that affordable home devices for reasonably reliable DNA analysis are basically a few years away now
Every twitcher should have one (no need to wait for that pesky rarities committee to reject your sightings, a DIY method to improve the list, what's not to like?)
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
So that's a "no" on the field marks, right?
BTW. I just yesterday spoke with my friends who happen to be evolutionary biologists - people who do DNA analysis on a daily basis. I was discussing with them the potential for abusing their lab for animal ID and they were quite sceptical about the prospects of working from poop - yet it seems ornithologist do that all the time, which is interesting. We were talking about mammals though (where they said an easy way is to swab their mouth). More interestingly, they told us that affordable home devices for reasonably reliable DNA analysis are basically a few years away now
You can even do it from urine sometimes with mammals including humans, it's dependant on cells being contained within the urine of faeces so I don't know why they would be sceptical?
opisska
rabid twitcher
It's probably just more work. As far as I understood, slipping the sample into the machine is just a cherry on top of a pie, the real work lies in preparing the sample so that the sequencing produces a useable result and the amount of work needed for that is very different depending on where the sample comes from.
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
From 'Chamberlain's LBJ's' by Faansie Peacock which states for Eurasian Reed 'Long winges extend past rump', conversely for African, 'Short wings do not pass rump'.
Here are the full measurements as given in this book.
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Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
Coming back to this - I'd not rely on this too much. I've many times known new territorial Reed Warblers (presumably first summers?) turn up at small 2nd-rate reedbeds (in northeast England) in late June where there were no birds earlier in the season. Still time for them to raise a single brood, at the same time as earlier-arriving established birds are raising their second brood. These late-arriving birds may well still be coming through Iberia well into June.
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dantheman
Bah humbug
Was thinking something along the same lines. Also a bit unsatisfying to tick a bird when little effort was made to pick up on features, even if they are hard?
There was a pdf/paper online about 10 years ago on Moroccon Reed Warbler id - is that still around or was the info in it debunked?
Blue Kangaroo
Active member
What about in July then Nutcracker?
Blue Kangaroo
Active member
Please let me know the distinguishing features of the African Reed warbler please as i would not like to tick a bird with no effort.
KenM
Well-known member
Thanks Andy :t:
dantheman
Bah humbug
I was looking for the paper online but couldn't find it. I may have misremembered but I thought it was distinctly smaller, shorter pp (as mentioned), different plumage tones (darker?) and behaviourly - tendency to creep, as a suite of features. But really needs confirming ... !
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
Hmmm . . . perhaps! 3
Blue Kangaroo
Active member
I was looking for the paper online but couldn't find it. I may have misremembered but I thought it was distinctly smaller, shorter pp (as mentioned), different plumage tones (darker?) and behaviourly - tendency to creep, as a suite of features. But really needs confirming ... !
Could you ID it if you thought you had seen one ?
Blue Kangaroo
Active member
Hmmm . . . perhaps! 3
So. A Reed warbler seen in the reed bed at Barcelona in July is ?
dantheman
Bah humbug
Yes - seen well, but with the proviso that a) birds can appear different in 'off-season' b) the criteria were accurate ...
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Does the Van Duivendijk Advanced ID Guide have anything on it I wonder?
For entertainment only (but relevant) : https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3235789&postcount=1
(thanks jurek)
(thanks jurek)
