New CL 8x30 and me. (1 Viewer)

If really the little Zeiss Victory 8x25 can compete with the new CL 8X30 then the Zeiss would be an "out of series" .. since I have read great things about the new CL 8x30 (but I have also read very good things about the Zeiss), but of course 30mm versus 25mm .. !!
And really the price of the Zeiss is much lower than the new CL 8x30 .., I've seen that the old CL 8x30 even with a price inferior to the Zeiss ...
I understand from your comments that the little Zeiss is far superior to the old CL 8x30 (I've seen them for the same price) and can compete very well with the new CL 8x30 ??
Thanks
Wachi

Hermann said:

The Victory 8x25 beats the CL in most other important respects? Not really. Did you actually compare the two? Doesn't look like it to me.

Hermann

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Well, I pulled up a web page that erroneously listed the 372 ft FOV spec of the old model, so I stand corrected on that important attribute, but the Victory does seem superior in every other area that I listed.

8x25 Victory vs (new) 8x30 CL:

$750 vs $1160
290 g vs. 490 g
FOV 390 ft vs. 396 ft
eye relief 16.5 mm vs 16 mm
close focus 1.9 m vs 3 m (these are catalog specs, so probably both do better. I know the Victory is 1.5 m)
minimum IPD 34 mm vs 55 mm

--AP

I have found out from use that the CL Companion 8x30 B has variable eye relief that I can use without experiencing blackouts in the view.

I can use my normal technique of bracing its eye cups up against my my eye brows and not experience blackouts while using it. Alternatively I can push them back into my eye sockets underneath my brow ridge and not have any of the blackouts that I used to get with that method.

Searching for the perfect eye relief is a thing of the past with this binocular!:king:

Bob

Alexis Powell said:

8x25 Victory vs (new) 8x30 CL:

$750 vs $1160
290 g vs. 490 g
FOV 390 ft vs. 396 ft
eye relief 16.5 mm vs 16 mm
close focus 1.9 m vs 3 m (these are catalog specs, so probably both do better. I know the Victory is 1.5 m)
minimum IPD 34 mm vs 55 mm

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All very well. BUT optically the new CL is quite a bit better than the Zeiss Victory. It also has better ergonomics and is far easier to use in the field. BTW, the new CL also beats the Swarovski 8x25 and the 10x25 quite easily with regard to optical quality and ease of use.

Both the Zeiss 8x25 and the Swarovski 8x25 are more like typical compact binoculars in use. The 8x30 and 10x30 CL are more like "real" binoculars. So if compactness and (very) low weight are your most important criteria, the Zeiss 8x25 and the Swarovski 8x25 are more suitable. In all other cases the CL 8x30 and the 10x30 are better.

BTW, have a look at this review: http://www.tvwg.nl/testrapporten/kijkers/swarovski-CL-Companion-8x30_10x30.shtml. Use Google tranlator if necessary. I find this review sums up the properties new CL very nicely.

Hermann

ceasar said:

I have found out from use that the CL Companion 8x30 B has variable eye relief that I can use without experiencing blackouts in the view.

I can use my normal technique of bracing its eye cups up against my my eye brows and not experience blackouts while using it. Alternatively I can push them back into my eye sockets underneath my brow ridge and not have any of the blackouts that I used to get with that method.

Searching for the perfect eye relief is a thing of the past with this binocular!:king:

Click to expand...

I agree. And I think Swarovski managed to design an eyepiece that is so much more forgiving with regard to the exact position of the entrance pupil of one's eyes that it's almost a game changer for binoculars with smallish exit pupils. I find the new CL 10x30 is at least as easy to use as a typical 10x42.

Quite remarkable.

Hermann

Well, also the price of the new CL 8x30 is greater than both, Zeiss Victory 8x25 and the Swaro. 8x25 ...
Wachi

Hermann said:

All very well. BUT optically the new CL is quite a bit better than the Zeiss Victory. It also has better ergonomics and is far easier to use in the field. BTW, the new CL also beats the Swarovski 8x25 and the 10x25 quite easily with regard to optical quality and ease of use...

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If the new CL is as good as you say relative to the Zeiss 8x25 Victory, it must be stupendously good, because I find the Zeiss so good that I am not sure whether my Leica 8x32 BA, Zeiss 8x32 FL, or Swarovski 8x32 EL (old) will see much use in the future. I say this as someone who prefers full-sized bins, and who generally uses Swarovski 8.5x42 EL SV (and in past, mostly Zeiss 7x42 BGATP).

I can totally agree that the new CL might surpass the Swarovski 8x25 CL. I tried that bin a couple times and was not only not impressed, but even disappointed. Crappy specs, crappy handling. The Zeiss 8x25 Victory _kills_ it.

Hermann said:

...Both the Zeiss 8x25 and the Swarovski 8x25 are more like typical compact binoculars in use. The 8x30 and 10x30 CL are more like "real" binoculars. So if compactness and (very) low weight are your most important criteria, the Zeiss 8x25 and the Swarovski 8x25 are more suitable. In all other cases the CL 8x30 and the 10x30 are better...

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For the Swarovski 8x25 CL and Zeiss 8x25 Terra ED, I would agree wholeheartedly, but when it comes to the Zeiss 8x25 Victory, I couldn't disagree more. The reason I like it so much is that I have a hard time telling in the hand, and can't tell by its view, that it is an 8x25 rather than an 8x32. In fact, I like the ease of view better than many 8x32. I find eye placement extremely forgiving, with or without glasses. Perhaps the oculars are using the same magic that some claim is in play with the Swarovski 8x30 CL (new).

--AP

The Zeiss 8x25 offers a bright crisp and wide image compared with competitors in its class, but I would not say it really competes with current larger objective alpha binoculars. A really great little binocular, but unfortunately, I have had the opposite experience regarding ease of eye placement. I find it finicky sometimes. The Swarovski 8x25 is a pleasure to use, by comparison, and unlike some, I find the current version has a very decent image too.
Hermann, I am interested in why you chose the 10x30 over the 8x30. I am considering doing exactly the same.

Alexis Powell said:

I'd say the Zeiss 8x25 Victory is already there. I find that it handles and provides a view more like what I expect from an 8x32, so I consider it a competitor to the Swarovski 8x30 CL (new) even though it is a slightly different format. It has smaller objectives (and exit pupil), yet eye placement is quite forgiving, and the Victory beats the CL in most other important respects, including price, weight, FOV, close focus, eye relief, and minimum IPD.

--AP

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Do you use the 8x25 Victory while wearing your glasses? I think I recall you writing that you used your Leica 8x20 Blackline while wearing your glasses.

I don't wear glasses and my biggest complaint with 20mm and 25mm compact binoculars is finding a good place to brace them against my eye brows. It is the major reason I never bothered to upgrade my Leica 8x20 Trinovid. I did buy a Zeiss 8x20 Victory at a sale price but I still had the same problem with it. Then I thought that getting a new Swarovski 8x25 CL Compact would help but I still had difficult eye placement problems with it.

I don't have that eye placement problem with 30mm binoculars. And the redesigned eye pieces in the new Swarovski CL Companion 8x30 B makes it even easier for me to use it.

Bob

Acute said:

Hermann, I am interested in why you chose the 10x30 over the 8x30. I am considering doing exactly the same.

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Basically because I wanted a small, light 10x binocular for use on long hikes, especially in the mountains. I find 10x gives me more detail on the birds than 8x, and there are situations where I don't want to or can't carry a scope.

So that decision was solely based on the higher magnification of the 10x, not on the optics being better or something.

However, I find the CL so good that I may well buy an 8x30 as well at some stage. But that's got to wait. At the moment I'm quite happy.

Hermann

ceasar said:

Do you use the 8x25 Victory while wearing your glasses? I think I recall you writing that you used your Leica 8x20 Blackline while wearing your glasses...

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Yes, I always wear glasses while birding, which I agree is an advantage with pocket roofs since their eye cups are too small to fit an adult human face! I've played around with the Zeiss 8x25 Victory Pocket without glasses too, and found it to be very easy to use in direct comparison to some top-end 8x20 and to some 8x32 models. For me, the view is _exceptionally_ easy. I say this as someone who generally finds small exit pupils (e.g. of 8x32 bins) uncomfortably restrictive because I like to look around the view (off-axis), rather than always keeping my gaze trained down the center of the telescope. Looking around the view is facilitated by small shifts in the bin relative to the eyes, which this bin (like many good bins) tolerates (even though one is not supposed to do that . Some optics (e.g. Zeiss 8x32 FL, Zeiss 8x25 Terra ED, B&L 8x42 Elite waterproof version, Nikon 16/24/30x DS Fieldscope eyepiece) do not tolerate decentered viewing (usually because it leads to astigmatic smearing), so I don't get on with them as well. Having played with the 8x25 without glasses a lot, I think the main problem that some users might find is that their eye comes too close to the oculars. Either adding an eyecup extension or expansion (or both), or holding the eyecups against the upper edge of the orbit rather than deep in the socket, should solve the problem.

Another factor that makes me so enthusiastic about this bin is that it fits my hand like a bigger bin, with the optical axis properly aligned to my hand, so that I am able to bring the bins to my eyes and already be on target (i.e. pointed at the object of interest), even in awkward situations (e.g. while twisting my body to see out of a side window of my car, or to find a bird moving high overhead in the canopy). Last weekend, I walked ~6 miles through forest (brush-busting, no trails) on a very hot and thoroughly humid day, literally raining sweat (clothes saturated) from my body. Those are conditions (tricky lighting, awkward viewing angles, only quick glimpses of most birds, physically uncomfortable, possibly tired/shaky hands) in which I would not even think of trying to enjoy use of an 8x20, and would generally also avoid choosing an 8x32, but I found that the Zeiss 8x25 Victory worked perfectly. Not once did I find myself frustrated with its limitations. That's something, under those conditions, that I think I could only say about one other of the many excellent bins that I own, namely the Swarovski 8.5x42 EL SV. I know many factors are a matter of taste and fit, so I'm not arguing that the claim should be universal, but for me this Zeiss 8x25 Victory is the most exciting birding bin I've tried since the Zeiss 7x42 BGATP. After the Swarovski 8.5x42 EL SV, the Zeiss 8x25 Victory Pocket is now my second favorite bin of all time. Going forward, my main question will be how well it holds up physically. Generally, I've had a good experience with Zeiss, but this bin is a new Japanese produced effort, and not all Japanese bins (esp. rubber armor) hold up as well as have my Zeiss and Leica bins.

--AP