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Harrier SW France

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Old Wednesday 13th December 2017, 15:41   #1
MaŽlle
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Harrier SW France

Hi !
It was seen yesterday while trying to watch a Pallid Harrier which is currently in the area.
The Pallid showed himself a few minutes after this one.

Is this OK for you for a 2nd winter Hen Harrier or not?
What about this greyish P10? It looks adult feather-like but is it just an old worn juvenile flight feather (but doesnít look very rusty/brownish, not easy maybe with this poor light)?
This whitish mask? Quite weak black trailing edge?

What do you think about this bird ?
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Old Wednesday 13th December 2017, 15:43   #2
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Old Wednesday 13th December 2017, 17:01   #3
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Anyone else thinking of a hybird when looking at these pictures or am I going crazy?
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Old Wednesday 13th December 2017, 17:16   #4
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Defenitily a most interesting bird. Not only P1 shows not enough black but so does P5 and even P4 should show a broad dark tip. Hybrid would be my guess and I would like to hear Dick Forsman's opinion, you should mail him these pictures (dickforsman.com)
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Old Wednesday 13th December 2017, 17:42   #5
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Let me explain the reasoning behind my madness...

First off I believe this can be aged as an advanced 2cy (perhaps even a 3cy, I'm not sure) due to the streaked breast, faint collar, white around eye and brown tinted upperwing coverts. I also think that p10 is 'adult-type' and not juvenile.

Of course I'm probably wrong as hybrids are very rare but here are my thoughts...

Pallid features

- Thin and weak trailing edge

- White p10 with diffuse black tip

- Head shape


Hen features

- Bulging outer secondaries

- Fingered p6/five distinct fingers


Intermediate features

- Extent of black in outer primaries reaching to primary coverts

- Black on p5
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Old Wednesday 13th December 2017, 17:46   #6
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Sorry Tom I didn't see your message before posting. I'm glad we share similar thoughts!
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Old Wednesday 13th December 2017, 19:50   #7
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I can't see where on the website I can post the pictures...
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Old Saturday 16th December 2017, 12:55   #8
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Dick Forsman thinks this it is indeed a pallid x hen harrier. Thank you very much for your participation to the ID of this bird!
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Old Saturday 16th December 2017, 13:31   #9
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Wow great work. How does that get counted though. I'm sure it's been done a million times but I guess that it can't be counted as either....
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Old Saturday 16th December 2017, 14:37   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaŽlle View Post
Dick Forsman thinks this it is indeed a pallid x hen harrier. Thank you very much for your participation to the ID of this bird!
That's fascinating: great to see another example documented! Thanks for posting, especially that very instructive first image.
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Old Sunday 17th December 2017, 09:05   #11
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Agree to this harrier showing clear hybrid features, now also confirmed by DF. Great pic showing mentioned fetures well!

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Old Sunday 17th December 2017, 18:44   #12
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Great photo !
have seen hybrid, but not a male that advanced
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