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sterna hirundo or not?? (1 Viewer)

jonafly

Well-known member
Hi everyone,

Is this a sterna hirundo?

Shots taken in first week of april in Andalucia (Donana) in the bird recovery center called "La Cañada de los Pájaros" nature reserve.

Thanks.

André
 

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I'm not sure, since I've never seen one myself. It's not in breeding plumge and it sure looks ragged and torn up which makes it harder to i.d. It does look like it could be a Gull-billed. No one else going to comment?
 
Have you ruled out Roseate?

The heavy bill could be caused by the angle of the head, it is also very pale and dark legged. Heavy moult could account for the less than graceful profile?

I have to say I've not convinced myself but it might stimulate some debate!
 
I've been avoiding this... the legs look hugely long though... so that rules out Roseate, but I see what you mean. My best guess is Gull-billed.
 
I usually end up agreeing with Jane so I should give up now! I withdraw Roseate unconditionally - the legs have it.

What would a first summer Forster's look like - could it keep the dark bill but gain a full dark crown? Forsters would cover leg length and bill shape - it just doesn't "feel" like a Gull-billed especially with a down-curved bill ?
 
It's a horrible looking thing isn't it and the ID isn't helped by it apparently being in a plumage that never seems to get illustrated in guides. Would tentatively think Gull-billed, although that's as much due to do with it not looking much like any other European terns than it really convincing me as G-BT.
 
Sorry, it doesn't quite look like a Gull-billed Tern to me. Gull-billed is a more robust bird, bill is shorter for its height and both mandibles are obviously convex: bill should look more like a gull's (!). We also should be able to see its 'knees'.

No idea what it is, though, the awful scruffy thing.
 
I think that one of the problems is that the tendency is to try to fit the bird to what should be at the location - that would put Gull-billed right up there - but I agree with Charles - the bill looks all wrong.
 
Yeah, but what apart from Gullible Tern has such long legs? - they're certainly too long for any of the other regular European terns (Sarnie, Roseate, Common, Arctic)

Michael
 
One more remark maybe:

Canada de los pajaros (the recovery center) has also birds from other parts of the world. I absolutely don't know if this applies to this one, but it broadens the horizon maybe. This one sat together with all 'local' birds so I assumed it was European...

André
 
Yeah, but what apart from Gullible Tern has such long legs? - they're certainly too long for any of the other regular European terns (Sarnie, Roseate, Common, Arctic)
Agreed - but we can't clinch its ID on just its legs can we - although I suppose an aberrant bill is more likely than aberrantly long legs?
 
Charles Harper said:
Sorry, it doesn't quite look like a Gull-billed Tern to me. Gull-billed is a more robust bird, bill is shorter for its height and both mandibles are obviously convex: bill should look more like a gull's (!). We also should be able to see its 'knees'.

No idea what it is, though, the awful scruffy thing.

Hi Charles,
When I first viewed the photo my initial gut feeling was Gull Billed, I see no reason to change this view.
You made some valid points with regards to bill shape, however if you notice ,the beak is fractionally open thus altering the shape.
Also the head is slightly turned thus the view is rather along the top of the bill rather than sideways.
I may have not explained that right but look at the shots and try and judge were I'm comming from.
You are correct to say that the knees should be showing but the legs are long none the less with the belly feathers fluffed/ruffled up thus hiding the uperleg.
Also again the angle of the shot seems to suggest looking down onto the bird rather than a side profile.
But for me the clincher was the primary pattern, if you look closely at the primarys you will see that they are basicley split right down the middle with the dark outer primary section contrasting with the paler silver inner primarys.
The leg colour seems washed but this can probably be explained along with the plumage condition as its obviously a sick individual
 
more adjusted images

Hi,

Any help?

Billcolour, legcolour, bill-length..

André
 

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This is just a beat up Gull-billed Tern. The only way to consider anything else is to presume that the bill is aberrant and it just doesn't look aberrant.
 
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jonafly said:
Hi,

Any help?

Billcolour, legcolour, bill-length..

André

No if anything its worse !!!
Pic 1 shows red tinges to the bill, ad Gull billed is all black.
Pic 2 shows the bill in a better profile and I have to say I agree with Charles now on this one the bill looks most un Gull billed tern like
pic 3 also shows the upperleg does appear to be shorter than the lower.
In summary I'm stumped with one of the parents of this bird, and the other we'll I still think its got Gull billed in the other half. :h?:
 
Umm......... I'm not sure what it is either. The foot, legs, and bill are reddish. The bill is too long for a Gull-billed but too thick for much else. The tail seems much shorter than the wings which again points to Gull-billed or a hybrid.
 
André

Can you remember anything about the bird. Did it fly? If so what was the flight like? Did it feed? If so what was the feeding action? Was it plunge diving or picking from the surface?

Were there other terns to help compare size?

The pictures seem to show such contradictory features that perhaps the birds habits might cast some light?

If anyone has a copy of Terns Of Europe & North America (Helm) take a look at the moulting second summer Whiskered (Plate 172), then advance it a bit to have a complete crown? Non of the pictures above remind me of Whiskered, but the stoutness and shape of the bill are suprisingly similar to the bird pictured.

Someone call for an expert!
 
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