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Warning For Potential Zen Ray Buyers!!!

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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 15:08   #1
carsonc1974
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Warning For Potential Zen Ray Buyers!!!

I hate to be that guy, this being my first post, But lurking here is mainly what convinced me to purchase some Zen Ray Prime's. Thought i Would share my experience about how im feeling ripped off.

Earlier in the week, I made my purchase of some demo Primes and was very excited to receive them.These are my first good pair of bin's and was prepping for scouting this weekend for my fall deer hunt. As it turns out, there is a problem with shipping(FEDEX) and when contacting ZR customer service, was basically told tough luck, we dont ship with insurance. They are making ZERO attempts at helping solve this.

Why in the world wouldn't Zen Ray ship with insurance, or in the very least, require someone sign for them with a purchase as expensive as this. That insurance protects both the buyer and the seller.

This was a very big stretch for me to spend this kind of money on bin's for my first deer hunt, and im VERY VERY DISAPPOINTED! I most likely will not be able to afford to replace these missing bino's before the hunt.
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 15:25   #2
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Try contacting FEDEX directly.

Also, many credit cards offer buyer protection. Check with your credit card company. They may reimburse you for the loss.
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 15:25   #3
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Wouldn't touch an uninsured seller with a barge pole.
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 15:35   #4
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Read this article about consumer rights regarding failed delivery:
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/sho...elivery-rights

One more article about the purchase protection offered on some credit cards:
http://www.creditcards.com/credit-ca...plans-1267.php

Last edited by bfoutch : Friday 7th August 2015 at 15:40.
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 15:42   #5
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Thanks for the tips everyone. I have a call into Fedex Right now and they are working on it, or so they say. I also opened a dispute on PayPal which looks like it is going to turn into a claim when the timer runs out on the 10th.

Its crazy not to ship insured. It not only protects the buyer, but more so the seller as it is there responsibility to make sure the customer receives the product. If they had done that, I would most likely be here singing ZR praises, not worried my first ever deer hunt is going to be ruined, and the biggest optics purchase I've ever made a total waste of my hard earned money.

Last edited by carsonc1974 : Friday 7th August 2015 at 16:16.
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 16:24   #6
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Originally Posted by carsonc1974 View Post
I hate to be that guy, this being my first post, But lurking here is mainly what convinced me to purchase some Zen Ray Prime's. Thought i Would share my experience about how im feeling ripped off.

Earlier in the week, I made my purchase of some demo Primes and was very excited to receive them.These are my first good pair of bin's and was prepping for scouting this weekend for my fall deer hunt. As it turns out, there is a problem with shipping(FEDEX) and when contacting ZR customer service, was basically told tough luck, we dont ship with insurance. They are making ZERO attempts at helping solve this.

Why in the world wouldn't Zen Ray ship with insurance, or in the very least, require someone sign for them with a purchase as expensive as this. That insurance protects both the buyer and the seller.

This was a very big stretch for me to spend this kind of money on bin's for my first deer hunt, and im VERY VERY DISAPPOINTED! I most likely will not be able to afford to replace these missing bino's before the hunt.
ZR said "Tough Luck!" That is amazing. I would never buy again from Zen Ray. Every seller I have EVER dealt with would send you another set of binoculars. Shame on you Zen Ray.
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 17:17   #7
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In Zens defense, most companies wont do much of anything until it has run it's course with the shipper. Though goodwill jestures are not unheard of among premium brands.
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 17:24   #8
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Well according to the link posted above, a buyers contract is not with the shipper, but with the Seller. I shouldn't have to be the one fighting with FedEx over freight issues as they set up shipping and chose the shipper. As the shipper, they are responsible for the product until it reaches the buyer, in which the product hasnt. IMO the ball is in their court, and they left me to hang. There is no goodwill gesture in re-sending out another set of bins and and then them dealing with FedEx, that is just the way things are done in most transactions.

I will be making a phone call this afternoon to try and get to someone higher up to try and resolve this so i can drop my dispute on paypal.
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 17:51   #9
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Originally Posted by carsonc1974 View Post
Well according to the link posted above, a buyers contract is not with the shipper, but with the Seller. I shouldn't have to be the one fighting with FedEx over freight issues as they set up shipping and chose the shipper. As the shipper, they are responsible for the product until it reaches the buyer, in which the product hasnt. IMO the ball is in their court, and they left me to hang. There is no goodwill gesture in re-sending out another set of bins and and then them dealing with FedEx, that is just the way things are done in most transactions.

I will be making a phone call this afternoon to try and get to someone higher up to try and resolve this so i can drop my dispute on paypal.
Actually that is a good will jesture if fedex is saying they delivered them to you? If fedex is saying they werent delivered, then it may be a different call.

You really dont give any info to make a judgement call on.
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Last edited by perterra : Friday 7th August 2015 at 17:59.
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 18:17   #10
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Fedex says they were delivered, just not sure if it was dropped off at the right address.

It is beside the point, whether or not you feel its a goodwill gesture or not. I did not receive a product that I payed for. It is not up to the shipper to make that right, it is the responsibility of the seller. If it is indeed the fault of the shipper, It isnt my(the Buyer) responsibility to fight for what is already payed for.

The burden lies with the seller to make sure the buyer receives the product. If the shipper looses a package, the seller should to go after them for re-payment, not the other way around. That is the cost of selling online and not through a brick and mortar. I simply should not be the one paying for this. My transaction is with ZEN RAY, not FedEx.

If im way off base here, please, help me understand.
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 18:30   #11
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Originally Posted by carsonc1974 View Post
Fedex says they were delivered, just not sure if it was dropped off at the right address.

It is beside the point, whether or not you feel its a goodwill gesture or not. I did not receive a product that I payed for. It is not up to the shipper to make that right, it is the responsibility of the seller. If it is indeed the fault of the shipper, It isnt my(the Buyer) responsibility to fight for what is already payed for.

The burden lies with the seller to make sure the buyer receives the product. If the shipper looses a package, the seller should to go after them for re-payment, not the other way around. That is the cost of selling online and not through a brick and mortar. I simply should not be the one paying for this. My transaction is with ZEN RAY, not FedEx.

If im way off base here, please, help me understand.
The shipper says it was delivered, the buyer says he never received it. So who should the seller believe? Your filing a dispute with paypal will probably get it made right, did you inform Zen you would contest it on your credit card?

I bought a pair of Costa Del Mar fishing glasses years ago, they didnt show, UPS said they were delivered. I raised hell with Hidalgo about not recv them and they shipped out another pair. About a week after the second pair arrived I found the first pair where my wife had left them when she picked them up from the porch, having forgotten she even found them after delivery. I called Hidalgo an apologized, and shipped the pair back on my dime.

Not saying this happened with you, I'm just saying most companies dont jump through the hoops until the due diligence is done. After all, be a great way to get a free extra pair of binos
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 18:33   #12
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A big problem where I live, is that thieves are following the FEDEX and UP trucks and then stealing packages off the doorsteps and porches. Many friends who order on-line regularly have all packages delivered to their work address or to an address where someone is home to receive the packages.
http://fox13now.com/2015/05/14/recog...rom-slc-homes/

I know this doesn't help you much, but it may help others to be aware that this problem is a growing one. If your porch is exposed to the street, you may want to re-considered where you have your packages delivered.

Last edited by bfoutch : Friday 7th August 2015 at 18:36.
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 19:16   #13
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Originally Posted by carsonc1974 View Post
Fedex says they were delivered, just not sure if it was dropped off at the right address.

It is beside the point, whether or not you feel its a goodwill gesture or not. I did not receive a product that I payed for. It is not up to the shipper to make that right, it is the responsibility of the seller. If it is indeed the fault of the shipper, It isnt my(the Buyer) responsibility to fight for what is already payed for.

The burden lies with the seller to make sure the buyer receives the product. If the shipper looses a package, the seller should to go after them for re-payment, not the other way around. That is the cost of selling online and not through a brick and mortar. I simply should not be the one paying for this. My transaction is with ZEN RAY, not FedEx.

If im way off base here, please, help me understand.
You should go after Fedex. Ask them who acknowledge receipt of the package. Dig more details from them.
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 19:34   #14
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I have fedex running a trace right now, and have a claim filed with them. I also have opened a dispute with paypal. I also have 2 voice mails I to zen ray. They have gone quiet.

I understand things get lost in transit. My beef is they took zero precautions like insurance, or signature required, (reccomended by fedex and paypal)and now that things have gone south, they have dropped it in my lap,with no real solutions offered. This is not good customer service, and I am not a satisfied customer. The sad part is this could all have been avoided.
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 20:07   #15
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The shipper says it was delivered, the buyer says he never received it. So who should the seller believe? Your filing a dispute with paypal will probably get it made right, did you inform Zen you would contest it on your credit card?

I bought a pair of Costa Del Mar fishing glasses years ago, they didnt show, UPS said they were delivered. I raised hell with Hidalgo about not recv them and they shipped out another pair. About a week after the second pair arrived I found the first pair where my wife had left them when she picked them up from the porch, having forgotten she even found them after delivery. I called Hidalgo an apologized, and shipped the pair back on my dime.

Not saying this happened with you, I'm just saying most companies dont jump through the hoops until the due diligence is done. After all, be a great way to get a free extra pair of binos

Sounds like you went through a similar thing as me, and demanded another pair of glasses be sent. So where am I going wrong?

Also feels like your insinuating I am dishonest. Why would i need a second pair of the exact same bins? This also proves my point of needing insurance, and signature required upon delivery. No questioning anything then.

I know I'mm new here, and therefore don't have a lot of credibility yet, but i didn't expect being called a thief.
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 20:50   #16
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Sounds like you went through a similar thing as me, and demanded another pair of glasses be sent. So where am I going wrong?

Also feels like your insinuating I am dishonest. Why would i need a second pair of the exact same bins? This also proves my point of needing insurance, and signature required upon delivery. No questioning anything then.

I know I'mm new here, and therefore don't have a lot of credibility yet, but i didn't expect being called a thief.
You arent going wrong on anything but jumping to conclusions. I'm not trying to insinuate you are being dishonest, but what I am saying is no one at Zen knows you from Adam so they wouldnt know if you were trying to get a pair for free or not.

Most people are honest, but I have been scammed in my biz more times than I would care to admit. Usually it was $300 or $400 but it has been as high as $3500 and one case a bankruptcy 10 days after purchasing $15,000 worth of equipment. If you dont have a UCC filed you dont get your stuff back. You get pennies on the dollar.

If you purchase something for say $500 from me and give me a check, I give you product, then you promptly stop payment on the check, I cant collect it as a hot check. Only recourse I have is small claims court. So I hire an attorney for around $1500 to get a return of a product that maybe has an actual cost of $400. It's a no win situation so I write it off and take the loss. Everyone pays for it, but I pay up front.

I wouldnt expect you to know these things, but you do need to know there are people who make a living out of screwing people. I'm not saying you are one, but I am saying you should be aware there are those who do. Everyone who ever screwed me attested they werent a thief Thats what they do, so be aware, just because someone says they are honest, doesnt mean they are. If I bought something from you and you shipped it to me, and got delivery confirmation saying it had been delivered and I said I didnt get it, what would you do?

That second pair could be sold in a heartbeat for $300 or so.


As for Zen going quite, read around, you'll find thats the norm. It's a 3 person company as best I know and communication isnt their strong point. I fully expect they will make it right with you, but I dont think it's going to be a quick process.

I'm sorry for your troubles and thats the truth, but shit happens and as bad as it can be, theres nothing to do but work through it.

And by the way, I agree, should have been insured. Most places wont insure unless you agree to signing for it, most complain about signing for it so most dont do it.

Good luck, for what it's worth I think it will be worked out. Hopefully in time for deer season.
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 21:23   #17
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You arent going wrong on anything but jumping to conclusions. I'm not trying to insinuate you are being dishonest, but what I am saying is no one at Zen knows you from Adam so they wouldnt know if you were trying to get a pair for free or not.
How have I jumped to conclusions? I made ZR aware of what happened and got told tough luck. They have zero intentions of helping me. My only recourse at this time is through FedEx or PayPal. ZEN RAY is not working on a solution.

I repeat, I'm not waiting on Zen Ray to come up with a solution to my missing bins. They have already told me they dont care and blame the shipper(That they chose and set up). I am working on getting my money back through third parties, as Zen Ray has no intention of making this right.

I just want others to know and not end up throwing $500 away.

EDIT: perterra, I dont mean to sound argumentative with you(now that we've settled your not calling me a thief), I'm just very very frustrated. I understand people get ripped off everyday, I just didn't expect it from a company that came so highly regarded.

Last edited by carsonc1974 : Friday 7th August 2015 at 21:26.
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 21:33   #18
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So you talked to them how many times? I understand frustration, but you said the shipper delivered it but you didnt get it? So would you refund me my money if I bought from you and said I didnt get it even if the shipper said they delivered it?

How long has this been going on? Has this been weeks, days or hours?

You have a legit gripe, but look at it from both sides.
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 22:38   #19
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Looks like the tide is changing!!!! WOOHOOOO! Got a call from Charles and seems like he is on it. Will update as things progress!
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 22:46   #20
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carsonc1974,

I am truly sorry to hear the issue with your FedEx delivery. We have been investigating with FedEx on what actually happened to that shipment ever since you contacted us. However, I do understand and appreciate that emotion can run high when such an expensive binoculars went missing, which may explain why you feel that way in your original post.

Through out the last 24 hours since the package was supposedly delivered yesterday morning, we provided the same advice as many fellow members suggested here: initiated tracer with FedEx and talked to local truck driver; contacted PayPal to see their purchasing protection against theft. We also offered to send you a pair of new PRIME HD while we continue working with you and related parties to investigate and recover the lost package.

From bottom of my heart, I am more worried that you might go on your planned trip without a pair of binoculars. That's why we asked to send you a pair while the investigation is ongoing. So, somehow, I feel a little sad when that all those steps we were taking was characterized as "tell customer tough luck". But I totally feel your frustration when an anticipated delivery didn't happen. Let the investigation run its course so we can get to the bottom of this. In the meantime, we have sent you a loaner pair so the hiccup won't impact too much of your upcoming season.

Again, I want to personally thank you for choosing Zen-Ray products.

Best Regards

Charles
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 23:08   #21
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Looks like the tide is changing!!!! WOOHOOOO! Got a call from Charles and seems like he is on it. Will update as things progress!

Great news, but you didnt answer how long this has been going on?

I mean you kinda blistered Zen, but Charles reply doesnt sound like you were told tough luck?
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 23:12   #22
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As always there are 2 VERY different sides to this story. You offered a "Loaner" while I fight with Fedex to try and retrieve the Bins I can actually keep. You offer 3 solutions, until you returned my message and talked with me:
- First You also stated in the first email that there is $100 of insurance and offered that as a solution.
-Then told me to deal with fedex to try and file a claim
-Then you asked me to File a claim with my Credit Card/Paypal

I happily did all these things,which where all third parties to my purchase. I wanted Zen Ray to work on a solution as you were the seller of my purchase. Once we communicated on the phone, person to person, all issues are worked out, and you will have a satisfied customer if everything goes as planned.

You cannot do anything about our scouting trip and i understand that. No hurt feelings here. It justifiably felt like you were doing anything you can to pass the buck to some other party rather then fix the issue directly. There was no communication that you were also working with FedEx to try and recover the package, and it was seeming like was the only one who gave a hoot whether we got this figured out or not.

My emotions may have got the better of me this time, but errors in communication were made. At this point, I am happy that you(Charles) contacted me and we could get this straightened out quickly and have a plan in motion.

This all started yesterday.
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 23:22   #23
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Oh good Lord, yesterday?

Had you said Zen offered a loaner while you worked thru the issue and you werent happy I would have ignored your post.

Forget it, this was a waste of energy
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Old Friday 7th August 2015, 23:23   #24
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I am so glad that we get this thing sorted out. I wish you a successful trip.

Charles
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