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Ivory-billed Woodpecker (formerly updates) (1 Viewer)

fangsheath said:
Bonsaibirder - I'm not sure how to answer your first question or what it refers to. If I see a video that I think looks like a pileated, from behind or anywhere else, why would I be tempted to conclude that it is an ivory-bill?
Click to expand...

The Luneau bird looks like a nromal Pileated to many people. Thereofer what is less likely - a PIWO flapping too fast or a IBWO that looks like a PIWO?

fangsheath said:
As for your second question, I am flabbergasted that you still don't seem to have gotten my previous point. If there is no dispute that the bird is a large woodpecker native to the continental U.S., and we reject the hypothesis that it is a pileated
Click to expand...

My point is that you can't reject that hypothesis because you don't have enough information to do so. (for some of the reasons I put forward)
 
Posted by timeshadowed
Post #5435

Originally Posted by chris murphy
I still remain stunned that a species would be declared extant on this {video} basis.


And I remain stunned that the IBWO was ever declared 'extinct' in the first place, while ignoring all of the 'unofficial' sightings throughout the years. Why were these reports just dismissed, without any follow-up searches? This was the biggest mistake in this whole sad saga of the IBWO.

TimeShadowed
----------
You and me both.
 
70ivorybill78 said:
And I remain stunned that the IBWO was ever declared 'extinct' in the first place, while ignoring all of the 'unofficial' sightings throughout the years. Why were these reports just dismissed, without any follow-up searches?
Click to expand...

Same reason as the Loch Ness Monster has never been scientifically accepted as a new species to science - fuzzy videos, countless reported sightings over the last century, inconclusive searches. In short, nothing that stands up to proper scrutiny to prove existance.

Not saying the Ivory-billed Woodpecker is as unlikely to exist of course, but the basics of sightings are the same.
 
timeshadowed said:
Why were these reports just dismissed, without any follow-up searches? This was the biggest mistake in this whole sad saga of the IBWO.
Click to expand...
I agree there as well.
bonsaibirder said:
The Luneau bird looks like a nromal Pileated to many people. Thereofer what is less likely - a PIWO flapping too fast or a IBWO that looks like a PIWO?
Click to expand...
Not everone thinks it looks like a pileated woodpecker, some think it looks like an ivory-bill.
 
70ivorybill78 said:
And I remain stunned that the IBWO was ever declared 'extinct' in the first place, while ignoring all of the 'unofficial' sightings throughout the years. Why were these reports just dismissed, without any follow-up searches? This was the biggest mistake in this whole sad saga of the IBWO.

TimeShadowed
----------
You and me both.
Click to expand...

Well, it really was never "DECLARED" extinct. I sure some people believed it extinct, but as far as I know, no government or scientific association 'declared' it extinct.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

timeshadowed said:
And I remain stunned that the IBWO was ever declared 'extinct' in the first place, while ignoring all of the 'unofficial' sightings throughout the years. Why were these reports just dismissed, without any follow-up searches? This was the biggest mistake in this whole sad saga of the IBWO.

TimeShadowed
Click to expand...

SOME 'unofficial' sightings WERE ignored, but I am in a position to know that MANY 'unofficial' sightings WERE followed up by very capable people conducting pretty thorough searches.

I guess if I believed that NO ONE ever followed up on 'unofficial sightings' I too would think IBWOs were everywhere. Many North American birders have friends that have searched for IBWOs and followed up on interesting sightings (and continue to do so). They go on their own or with others, they hike, canoe, whatever. This is nothing new. Many of these searches happened before the internet and the results are simply trip reports typed up on manual typewriters sitting on shelves in a birder's home. We will never know about all of them.
 
Last edited:
70ivorybill78 said:
Posted by timeshadowed
Post #5435

Originally Posted by chris murphy
I still remain stunned that a species would be declared extant on this {video} basis.


And I remain stunned that the IBWO was ever declared 'extinct' in the first place, while ignoring all of the 'unofficial' sightings throughout the years. Why were these reports just dismissed, without any follow-up searches? This was the biggest mistake in this whole sad saga of the IBWO.

TimeShadowed
----------
You and me both.
Click to expand...

I would like to see some documentation that the bird was ever declared extinct by an official agency or organization.
 
Posted by humminbird
Post #5450

I would like to see some documentation that the bird was ever declared extinct by an official agency or organization
------------
02/11/83_Letter received from American Birds, Robert Arbib, Editor.
Robert Arbib’s reply was “While your drawing does suggest an Ivory-billed, we find it impossible to believe that this species, which is probably extinct, and if not, confined to southern swamp woodlands, inhabits......”
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I realize this is not an "official" statement from American Birds, but it does largely show the mindset that was in place.

Then we also have this article (below) that dismisses out of hand 36 reports relating to Ivory-bills.

The Little-Known Status and Distribution of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker*
The Auklet. Centennial Issue. New Yauk, 1983, pages 1-7.

I have no doubt that some of these were not legit, but on the flip side, I also have no doubt that some were indeed legit (and in perfect historic habitat locations).
 
humminbird said:
I would like to see some documentation that the bird was ever declared extinct by an official agency or organization.
Click to expand...

see Threatened Birds of the World (2000)

published by Birdlife

this has been covered already though....

any comment on the 60 Hz flap rate then?

Tim
 
humminbird said:
I would like to see some documentation that the bird was ever declared extinct by an official agency or organization.
Click to expand...
It wasn't. Although there was no funding, the fact that it wasn't officially extinct made the hurdles a lot lower to mobilize once the bird was found.
 
70ivorybill78 said:
The Little-Known Status and Distribution of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker*
The Auklet. Centennial Issue. New Yauk, 1983, pages 1-7.

I have no doubt that some of these were not legit, but on the flip side, I also have no doubt that some were indeed legit (and in perfect historic habitat locations).
Click to expand...

If you haven't read it
HERE it is.

It really doesn't "dismiss" the past sightings. Only if you interpret it that way. Sure I think he's making fun of some of the sightings, but he really doesn't 'scientifically' discuss the merits of any of them. It's pretty tongue-in-cheek if you ask me.
 
curunir said:
It wasn't. Although there was no funding, the fact that it wasn't officially extinct made the hurdles a lot lower to mobilize once the bird was found.
Click to expand...

IT WAS!!!

again...

eg Birds to Watch 2 The World List of threatened Birds - published by BirdLife International 1994

It's in the extinct section on page 210-211

it was updated to critically endangered on the 'rediscovery'

This book was the offical source for the IUCN Red Lists

Tim
 
If you haven't read it
HERE it is.

It really doesn't "dismiss" the past sightings. Only if you interpret it that way. Sure I think he's making fun of some of the sightings, but he really doesn't 'scientifically' discuss the merits of any of them. It's pretty tongue-in-cheek if you ask me.
----------
Tongue-in-cheek, but in very poor taste, especially if your report is one included in this article. I agree it is not scientific, but it does come across to me as a complete dismissal of the potential legitimacy of some of these sightings. I feel that if someone wants to do a tongue-in-cheek on such an article, make an effort first to check out their authenticity before dismissing them tongue-in-cheek without any serious field followup. No additional followup was forthcoming regarding my records, simply a dismissal out of hand. I would strongly suspect that the other sightings were dealt with in the same manner. If anyone has any data to the contrary regarding the other sightings, I would love to hear of it.
 
re: extinction declaration

The only major American agency (I'm aware of) to declare the IBWO extinct was, ironically, The Nature Conservancy in 1996. What's significant is that no agency of the Federal Gov't. ever declared the bird extinct ...and this was pretty much singlehandedly due to the efforts of Jerry Jackson to keep it on the endangered list.
---------------------------------------------------------
 
Tim Allwood said:
IT WAS!!!

again...

eg Birds to Watch 2 The World List of threatened Birds - published by BirdLife International 1994

It's in the extinct section on page 210-211

it was updated to critically endangered on the 'rediscovery'

This book was the offical source for the IUCN Red Lists

Tim
Click to expand...
They don't pay the bills. Even the sceptics mainly worry about the deep pockets.
 
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