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Interview with the new head of Zeiss Sports Optics

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Old Tuesday 28th August 2018, 16:42   #51
Hauksen
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Hi David,

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Originally Posted by typo View Post
You might imagine that the tree colours would be transmitted as separate pathways but nothing is that simple when it comes to neurology. The three signals are first processesed into red/green and blue yellow/ratios in the retina then and goes through several complex intermediate stages on it's way to the visual cortex.
Thanks again! It seems the Wikipedia article is using mental models of colour perception that are too simple to do the topic justice.

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Henning
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Old Tuesday 28th August 2018, 17:59   #52
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He replied: “First of all there has not been 220 job losses because many jobs have been transferred. Eighty jobs in those functions which are close to the customer (this means product development and management, marketing, digital innovation and sales) have been moved to Oberkochen to merge with those departments there, and 70 jobs have been created in other parts of our manufacturing network, which principally means our factory in Hungary.
...
“To be very clear, Wetzlar remains Sports Optic’s key manufacturing site, with all critical components being manufactured there and all final assembly and quality assurance performed there. Some pre-production (prototyping) parts and some optical parts will be made in Hungary and of course there are some parts that have always been sourced outside of Zeiss Group for example rubber armour and eye-cups. For our main Victory products all optical components will be produced by Zeiss, the sole exception being the Zeiss Pockets which were developed by Zeiss but are produced in Japan to achieve the right price”.
Hi,

for reference the numbers announced by Zeiss and given to the press last fall were the following:

Sports Optics headcount at Wetzlar pre layoff: 330
Transferred to Oberkochen (development, marketing managment etc). 80
Production job reduction in Wetzlar: 140
Staff left in Wetzar past layoffs (Final assembly, service & repair): 110

Source (german only) https://www.mittelhessen.de/lokales/...d,1080630.html

Mr Schmitz has not really corrected these numbers - he just commented that the 80 jobs transferred to Oberkochen were not really lost (maybe, if the employees in Wetzlar were actually offered to move there and were able to) and the same goes for 70 more production jobs moved to Hungary (well, not really - I don't think any of the employees in production was offered to move to Hungary and work there at local rates and even if they were - who would take this offer).
This leaves another 70 jobs unaccounted for from the numbers given by Zeiss in last fall - so probably these were completely axed rather than moved?

He also stated that "Wetzlar remains Sports Optic’s key manufacturing site, with all critical components being manufactured there" and "For our main Victory products all optical components will be produced by Zeiss, the sole exception being the Zeiss Pockets..."
Before the layoffs there also was only the Victory production left in Wetzlar - one wonders how they managed to reduce the headcount needed to build them with only 110 staff left from 250 (excluding the 80 moved to Oberkochen which had nothing to do with production)...
Plus of course these 110 also do customer service and repairs in addition to production....

Puzzled,

Joachim
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Old Tuesday 28th August 2018, 20:12   #53
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Hi Joachim

Thanks for your post, in fact there were some changes after the press release that you mention as a result of negotiations with the works council which reduced the job losses.

But the main point is that Wetzlar remains the main production site and all commercial and development activities will be stationed in Oberkochen and all of the changes were made without any employment terminations or dismissals.

I hope this clarifies the situation for you.

Lee

Last edited by Troubador : Wednesday 29th August 2018 at 08:52.
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Old Tuesday 28th August 2018, 22:53   #54
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Regarding colour perception discussed here, the T.V. programme on now on Channel 9 or BBC Four should be a real eye opener.

Horizon 1/15 'Do you see what I see' 28 August 2018 22.00 to 23.00 BST.

It should be available on i-player.

There are so many points covered one really has to see the programme in full, but basically colour doesn't exist except in our brain.
Colour constancy. Blue light and circadian cycle. Feelings and colour. Performance enhancement with red. Time changing with colour etc etc.
Also knowledge of what colour a banana should be in changing light levels.

So much to digest.

Enjoy.
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Old Friday 7th September 2018, 10:06   #55
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Quote:
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basically colour doesn't exist except in our brain.

Enjoy.
Not entirely true. Light certainly has a wide range of frequencies and these are perceived not only by human brains and those of other animals but also by many, many insects.

Lee
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Old Friday 7th September 2018, 13:02   #56
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Even within that program the experts disagreed. The argument is largely philosophical.

The electromagnetic spectum includes gamma rays, microwaves, and radio waves, but our planet happens to be bathed with a small, but chemically absorbable band of frequencies emitted by our closest star. Biological organism have developed mechanisms to utilise the absorbed energy from specific wavelengths in various ways, including the generation transmissible electronic signals. We just attribute names to specific ratios of the three separate electronic impulses. Is that colour?

The Mantis shrimp has 12 different photoreceptors. You might imagine they are extremely good at colour discrimination. Their sensing of the electromagnetic spectrum is considerably more complex than ours, but their ability to distinguish different wavelengths is comparatively very poor. What we call colour is not a factor in their world. Does colour exist, or is it a figment of our imagination?

David

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Old Friday 7th September 2018, 17:57   #57
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With apologies in advance

Well clearly our idea of what 'exists' can only be based upon our experience, however limited, as interpreted by consciousness to produce our 'reality'.

With the involvement of the imagination, this also very much depends upon language and upon experiential testing of the 'facts', as primarily presented by education: although the world looks flat with the sun going from East to West, we can now experience it directly as being round, and as revolving in the solar system.

That Tv programme revealed that certain people did not have have words for certain shades. They were also said to be unable to discriminate between such colours and those which are more generally recognised, and I think it was suggested that this showed they could not see them.

I cannot remember whether those people were found to possess the same receptors in their eyes or not but, if not, then this conclusion would have been a corollary. Otherwise it might have been more sensible to have gone on to conclude that it may have resulted from not learning or practicing the appropriate mental symbols, and of course we we left wanting to know if with time they could learn the difference....

This might have been a better way of explaining how colour really does exist in our reality, rather than just confusing the issue - Typical BBC!

I read somewhere that when Captain Cook's ship first appeared in a tropical bay the natives did not notice it, and carried on as before. Without the same sort of consideration a BBC programme might well have insisted 'the ship did not exist' rather than 'it did not exist for them'.

As long as most people can agree, we have a common reality, and in that sense colour clearly exists for our culture but, when cultures mix, our reality may not always be shared.
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Old Saturday 8th September 2018, 08:46   #58
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Chris it strikes me that there are some similarities between the perception of colour and our perception of the solidity of objects. At the particle level these objects are far from a substance of continuous density but the strong forces between particles creates a substance that is for all everyday purposes totally solid, just as for all everyday purposes colour exists.

Lee
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Old Saturday 8th September 2018, 11:18   #59
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Lee, that seems right and thanks. Socrates may have planted the seeds of this understanding with "True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing", the boundaries ever extended by science, while Certainty would be a lot more reassuring.

Hence perhaps the appeal, however pessimistic and potentially misleading of "What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun...Is there a thing of which it is said, “See, this is new”? It has been already in the ages before us." (Eccl. 1:9-10)

The interweb is a wonderful thing!
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Old Saturday 8th September 2018, 13:02   #60
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Lee, that seems right and thanks. Socrates may have planted the seeds of this understanding with "True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing", the boundaries ever extended by science, while Certainty would be a lot more reassuring.

Hence perhaps the appeal, however pessimistic and potentially misleading of "What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun...Is there a thing of which it is said, “See, this is new”? It has been already in the ages before us." (Eccl. 1:9-10)

The interweb is a wonderful thing!
Indeed and many things written in the Bible had already been written about in the legends of surrounding kingdoms, for example the great flood features in legends from Mesopotamia and Persia.

Lee
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Old Thursday 13th September 2018, 00:10   #61
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CJ

LOL indeed. This is not what others have reported at all. There has been mentioned a 'greenish', or 'yellow-greenish' cast, and most on here don't see either. Nobody has reported a pinkish-grey-green cast so your unique perception is a puzzle.

Prof Gijs van Ginkel who has experience of transmission testing and has had his work verified by the top three brands has also stated more than once that his transmission curve does not support the idea of a colour cast in SF but of course transmission curves don't take into account the eye-brain system of the observer.

I certainly wouldn't bother taking SFs to the Western Isles of Scotland or Islay where we will be heading in a few weeks if they turned those pristine sea-shell-sand beaches and indeed, everything observed through them, into the colour of old mouldy, bacteria-ridden boiled ham to my eyes.

I have ample evidence at home of how colour perception can differ as Troubadoris and me often disagree as to whether a fabric or a paint etc is blue or green......

Lee
The SF greenish warm gray colour cast seems very noticeable to Tobias Mennle...and he took images to prove it. Being a cameraman, as I used to be too, and to film editors and photographers such traits are likely more noticeable.


http://www.greatestbinoculars.com/al...orysf8x42.html

http://www.greatestbinoculars.com/al...rightness.html

Last edited by maico : Thursday 13th September 2018 at 00:14.
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Old Thursday 13th September 2018, 13:01   #62
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The SF greenish warm gray colour cast seems very noticeable to Tobias Mennle...and he took images to prove it. Being a cameraman, as I used to be too, and to film editors and photographers such traits are likely more noticeable.


http://www.greatestbinoculars.com/al...orysf8x42.html

http://www.greatestbinoculars.com/al...rightness.html

Maybe we should get Tobias and Gijs in the same room and record the discussion.

Lee
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Old Thursday 13th September 2018, 18:43   #63
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Lee, post 62,
I was 7 times national university judo champion (middle weight and all catagories) , so be careful with your suggestions.
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Old Thursday 13th September 2018, 19:38   #64
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Just saw Putin on the news using, I think, a Zeiss type 10x50 Russian Porroprism binocular on his latest military outing.
With gold trim on front objective cell covers. A bit shiny maybe, but maybe black internally.

I think he wrote a book on Judo.

Gijs, fancy a match?
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Old Thursday 13th September 2018, 19:47   #65
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Binastro, post 64,
One does not embarass a head of state,
Gijs
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Old Thursday 13th September 2018, 19:57   #66
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Good reply (:
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Old Friday 14th September 2018, 06:24   #67
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Binastro, post 64,
One does not embarass a head of state,
Gijs
Quite right - you can usually rely on them do do it all by themself!

Chris
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Old Friday 14th September 2018, 08:21   #68
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Lee, post 62,
I was 7 times national university judo champion (middle weight and all catagories) , so be careful with your suggestions.
Gijs van Ginkel
Gijs

Yes I know because you have told me before.
This is why I made the suggestion!

Lee
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Old Friday 14th September 2018, 19:09   #69
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Well Done Lee.
Nice interview mate...

I'm goin have to get around to doing the same with Swarovski ..

Cheers
Tim
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Old Friday 14th September 2018, 19:44   #70
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Well Done Lee.
Nice interview mate...

I'm goin have to get around to doing the same with Swarovski ..

Cheers
Tim
Great idea Tim, look forward to it, and thanks for your kind words.

Lee
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Old Tuesday 16th October 2018, 20:33   #71
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Hi Lee, I won't be drawn into the old transmission discussions as I am not scientifically-minded... I'd just like to say thank you for your full report on what sounded like a most reassuring interview. Reassuring for the future of Zeiss, for us as customers, and especially for the workforce as people only lost their jobs through retirement.

All the best and thank you,

Tom

PS> I have just bought that nice, clean Victory 7x42 FL to show my confidence in Zeiss... feeling very lucky to have landed it!

Last edited by SeldomPerched : Tuesday 16th October 2018 at 20:39. Reason: Additional comment
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Old Wednesday 17th October 2018, 08:06   #72
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Hi Tom and thanks for your kind words. That FL looks like a real beauty and I am sure you will enjoy it.

Lee
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