Opticron confusion (1 Viewer)

scampo · Nov 6, 2003

Help please!

My son's Swarovski 65 with its 20-60 zoom does keep tempting me to want a good quality zoom eyepiece, but I'm told the old design Kowa TSN20-60x, suitable for my TSN3 is not worth buying (I have the 30xW on it which seems pretty amazing)..

The Opticron ES80 appeals on specification (i.e. claimed optical quality and weight) and financial grounds and several members have sung its praises - but I am throughly confused by Opticron's over-large range which now includes a 'new' model (as claimed on the Warehouse Express site), the HR80ED (but which weighs in at ~2kg).

Does any member know the difference between the Opticron HR80ED and the ES80 or have any experience of these scopes? Both seem to have ED elements in their optical design, but the first is up with the more pricey scopes at ~£1000, while the latter is available at ~£530 inc. zoom and case.

I simply cannot afford more than this at present (I can borrow my son's Swarovski if I want to show off!) - and I think if I did have £1000-00 I'd go for the Kowa 823 anyway rather than the Opticron.

pduxon · Nov 6, 2003

Can't tell you the differences check out the opticron website www.opticron.co.uk I've used the ES80 with the zoom for the past few months and I'm really pleased with it.

I presume the HR80 uses better quality components etc etc

One thing of note the 20-60 zoom on ES80 is 24-72 on the HR80 and its the same lens.

scampo · Nov 6, 2003

pduxon said:
Can't tell you the differences check out the opticron website www.opticron.co.uk I've used the ES80 with the zoom for the past few months and I'm really pleased with it.

I presume the HR80 uses better quality components etc etc

One thing of note the 20-60 zoom on ES80 is 24-72 on the HR80 and its the same lens.

Thanks, Pete. Have you had the chance to compare your scope with any others?

Ruby · Nov 6, 2003

Hi Steve,

I bought an ES80 a couple of months back and am really pleased with it (but it's the only scope I've ever had...)

At the time, I checked out a 2nd hand Kowa (can't recall which one) and an Optolyth which were both priced at about the same as a new Opticron. I couldn't see much difference optically, but found the ES80 much easier to use - I found the positioning of my eye to be critical and a bit fiddly with the other scopes.

I asked about the HR80 and as I recall, it was gas filled and supposedly heavier, but with identical optics - but the chap didn't have one for me to try.

Hope this helps.... Ruby

scampo · Nov 6, 2003

Thanks Ruby - I had also read your earlier reply which is what had partly led me to be interested in this scope. Do you find the zoom easy to look through and use? What about at 60x? Is there any oddities that annoy you suach as colour fringing or a narrow field of view?

Andy Bright · Nov 6, 2003

Have tried looking for a secondhand zoom for the tsn3? It may be worth a try, it's not the best zoom in the world but you may get on with it o.k. I reckon you'd be hard pressed to better the overall optical performance of a tsn3/4 unless you are venturing into the league of Kowa 823/4+.
Regards,
Andy

Ruby · Nov 6, 2003

Hi Steve,

One of the things I looked at specifically was colour fringing and I thought that all the scopes suffered a bit, but the Opticron no worse than the others. I was looking at a little twig against a very bright sky at maximum zoom.

The zoom on the ES80 works OK - the only couple of little points are that the focus tends to slip a little bit as you zoom (so you need to fine-tune the focus as you go in) plus the focus is extremely critical on max zoom (maybe all scopes are like this)

Overall I am very pleased. It was just so much easier for me to use than the other ones that I tried that there wasn't much of a choice really.

If poss, I would recommend going to one of these optics days where you can try out a few and see which one suits you (and your pocket!)

If they don't do them round your neck of the woods, I could point you to some that happen down here in Kent/Surrey - bit of a trek but maybe worth it....

Rgds.... Ruby

pduxon · Nov 6, 2003

scampo said:
Thanks, Pete. Have you had the chance to compare your scope with any others?

I did compare it with a Kowa scope (the model no escapes me 823 I think) but it was a couple of hundred quid dearer and though I felt the Kowa was marginally brighter it wasn't 200 quid brighter.

I tried the HR66 as well, good value but I thought the ES80 was worth the extra.

I'd try the Kowa zoom and see what you think. Its a much cheaper option and you could save up for a Leica or Zeiss

iebirdie · Nov 6, 2003

Hi Steve,
I sold my Kowa 821 a few months ago and went through the new scope agony thing. Here is my (highly subjective) view, for what it is worth...

The ES80 is an excellent scope for the money, and is particularly attractive to digiscopers because of the larger objective. It is much liked by digiscopers on this forum as far as I can see, and rightly so. However, I am not a digiscoper.

The ES80+eyepiece package is 499. Last month, at least one retailer reduced the package price of the Leica 62 (non apo) + eyepiece to 599 (from 699). Although admittedly not as bright as 80 scopes I found the Leica 62 superior for all the reasons I wanted (optics, compactness, weight) and it is definitely plenty bright for general birding. Even in "bad" light, I don't think there is a problem getting an ID (which is usually what it is all about from a birding perspective, as opposed to a digiscoping perspective), just that the image is a bit duller than on an 80. In most light though the 62 image is excellent.

I thought the extra 100 pounds was well worth it for an all round better "birding" scope investment, and I bought the Leica 62. But if it was still priced at 699 instead of 599 I would have stuck with the ES80 I think. Also, if I was into digiscoping I would have gone for the ES80.

So (again my personal view only, other mileages will vary depending on people's requirements for their scopes) as a non-digiscoper the Leica 62 (non apo) won out. But if you are a digiscoper, give the ES80 a very serious look as it might be the right one for you in the end. Also, if you intend doing more "extreme" birding in bad light, or spend a lot of time sitting in a hide not carrying your scope, again the ES80 may be the one for you.

best of luck with the choice, and good birding
cheers
Niall

scampo · Nov 6, 2003

Thanks to all for these excellent replies - what a useful place this is. It seems the Opticron scope is a fine piece of kit but now Niall has opened up a can of worms I'd not seriously considered - the idea of a non-ED scope.

The Opticron is ED (I think - although its spec is hardly clear, it does mention zero chromatic aberration) so should be a bargain.

But the Kowa 821 - non ED - is a similar price, and as Niall says the Leica and other non- EDs come into play at this price point, too.

What a difficult decision.

Does anyone have a Kowa 821 and think much of it? Are the newer zooms all equal. The Swarovski zoom is marvellous, of course - but not just its optical clarity, but its eye-relief and size - so easy to look into. Are other zooms the same?

scampo · Nov 6, 2003

iebirdie said:
Hi Steve,
I sold my Kowa 821 a few months ago and went through the new scope agony thing. Here is my (highly subjective) view, for what it is worth...

The ES80 is an excellent scope for the money, and is particularly attractive to digiscopers because of the larger objective. It is much liked by digiscopers on this forum as far as I can see, and rightly so. However, I am not a digiscoper.

The ES80+eyepiece package is 499. Last month, at least one retailer reduced the package price of the Leica 62 (non apo) + eyepiece to 599 (from 699). Although admittedly not as bright as 80 scopes I found the Leica 62 superior for all the reasons I wanted (optics, compactness, weight) and it is definitely plenty bright for general birding. Even in "bad" light, I don't think there is a problem getting an ID (which is usually what it is all about from a birding perspective, as opposed to a digiscoping perspective), just that the image is a bit duller than on an 80. In most light though the 62 image is excellent.

I thought the extra 100 pounds was well worth it for an all round better "birding" scope investment, and I bought the Leica 62. But if it was still priced at 699 instead of 599 I would have stuck with the ES80 I think. Also, if I was into digiscoping I would have gone for the ES80.

So (again my personal view only, other mileages will vary depending on people's requirements for their scopes) as a non-digiscoper the Leica 62 (non apo) won out. But if you are a digiscoper, give the ES80 a very serious look as it might be the right one for you in the end. Also, if you intend doing more "extreme" birding in bad light, or spend a lot of time sitting in a hide not carrying your scope, again the ES80 may be the one for you.

best of luck with the choice, and good birding
cheers
Niall

Thanks Niall

Would you say why you changed from the Kowa 821 - this seems to be in the same price band and was a scope I would have put on my shortlist?

iebirdie · Nov 6, 2003

Steve

Had the opportunity to compare my old Kowa 821 (sold to a mate) to my Leica 62 (non apo) the other day. There is no comparison, the Leica even non apo is much better optically, contrast wise, colour wise etc., than the Kowa 821.

While I went for the non apo Leica 62, I did not see much disadvantage, and in any event I think the "non apo" glass has ED qualities....? Apparently APO is not the same as ED.... ?

About this whole ED/APO thing generally (again speaking subjectively...) for the vast majority of middle tier birders, it is better to invest the extra 200 or 250 quid difference in top of the range bins instead ... That's what I did (I was also in the market for new bins and spend my ED money on springing for Swaro 8x32 ELs....they are the business).

Again, on a personal note and as a mere average birder with a busy life and only so much time to get out there birding, don't get carried away with obsessing for the perfect crystal clear colour perfect view.... We are birders after all and it is not all about the optical ID - it is also about your ears, jizz, fieldcraft and the sheer pleasure of the outdoors (of course, disregard this if you are a digiscoper...).

Ultimately you will not get the answer you want from any forum, newgroup, magazine review etc ... There is no one size fits all, and it is a cost/benefit analysis where everyone's perceived benefits are different....

Try to test out the scope and if you like what you see, and it fits all your other criteria on top of "CA neutrality" (like general optics, contrast, resolution, depth of field, cost, portability, ergonomics,weight, eyepieces etc....) then go for it !

cheers
Niall

iebirdie · Nov 6, 2003

scampo said:
Thanks Niall

Would you say why you changed from the Kowa 821 - this seems to be in the same price band and was a scope I would have put on my shortlist?

Sorry, did not see this before I posted just now...

Did not change because I woke up one morning hating it. In fact it was a fine scope..

The reason I changed was simple that I had it three years and I got an offer from s/one from my birding group for a reasonable price, and also I fancied something a bit lighter and more portable.

but now that I have the Leica I would not go back !

N

scampo · Nov 6, 2003

Good points, Niall - and thanks for them. We all want the best for the lowest price, though - the only reason I'm thinking of changing, if at all, is because I like my son's 20-60x zoom and the TSN3 zoom seems to have a bad press.

By the way, the cheapest price I can find for the Leica is £699-00 at present - quite a price. Seems you got a bargain.

alan_rymer · Nov 6, 2003

Steve

I have had my say many times about the ES80 and the HDF zoom. I wanted to try digiscoping so after a few months looking around I went for that model. I like it!. Unfortunatley, whatever you buy, you're always going to look back and think, what if!. Its human nature after all.
Try them out if you can.

scampo · Nov 6, 2003

Very philosophical, and true, Alan.

If only it weren't human nature.

Thanks for the advice.

iebirdie · Nov 6, 2003

scampo said:
By the way, the cheapest price I can find for the Leica is £699-00 at present - quite a price. Seems you got a bargain.

Try here:
http://www.acecameras.co.uk/

"Leica 62 Angled & 32xw Code No. 6026 £ 599.00 "

Andy will sort you out (tell him I sent you

)

Let us know in due course what you go for....

rgds
niall

scampo · Nov 6, 2003

iebirdie said:
Try here:
http://www.acecameras.co.uk/

"Leica 62 Angled & 32xw Code No. 6026 £ 599.00 "

Andy will sort you out (tell him I sent you )

Let us know in due course what you go for....

rgds
niall

Thanks for that, Niall - I am thinking hard! (It was the zoom I wanted, btw - but still the lowest price on the web).

postcardcv · Nov 20, 2003

I got and ES80 last year, and it is an excellent scope....
At the time I compared it with everything I could and within the price bracket it was (to my eyes) the best on offer. I felt that the ES80 performed better than the non-apo Leica. It is certainly worth trying them side by side to get a real feel for any differences.
That said it is also worth considering if it's best to upgrade to a mid-price scope now or save for a top of the range one. I've had my ES80 for just over a year now, and it has been great, however I have looked through one to many 77 apo televids in the year and now want to upgrade again. So although it's a great scope (top in it's price range) I'll be selling mine as soon as I can get a good enough deal on an apo Leica....

scampo · Nov 21, 2003

With a friend I was able to compare an ES80 with 20-60x zoom today in dull conditions at Rutland Water against the new Nikon Fieldscope 82 with equivalent zoom. The ES80 was very bright and sharp except at 60x when the image was a little disappointing; certainly - to our surprise, it compared well with the Nikon in every way.

But, we then had the chance to look through an Opticron HR66GAED and...

to the both of us, it proved the best of the three at all magnifications - bright, clear, sharp...

Now this is thoroughly confusing - I thought the Nikon would wipe the floor with the Opticrons. Absolutely it didn't and the 66mm seemed to be a gem - and, as I say, viewing conditions were trying. Sadly I hadn't got my son's Swarovski 65ED with me but, you know, I have a sneaky feeling that the Opticron 66 would have stood up well.

Has anyone any experience with this smaller Opticron scope?

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