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Yorkshire Birding (61 Viewers)

Chris-Leeds said:
Yeah, I'd checked the profile on Wikipedia and the Yanks take it as just a subspecies of Iceland gull. Birdguides still class it as tickable but as I'd not been able to pick out an Iceland previously it is still a lifer. I've always thought sub species a bit iffy as ticks.
How about the Amur falcon, black eared kite and Steppe grey shrike. Are they also sub species?

Chris.
Click to expand...

Good questions Steppe Grey Shrike is a full species, Amur falcon is treated by most authorities as full and Black eared Kite by some but not all. Amur falcon and Black eared Kite although they have been seen in Britian haven't been accepted yet by the BOURC so they don't have an opinion on their species rank. When they get round to accepting them then they will decide which authority to follow and what they class them as, personally I would expect them to be considered full when the time comes. The Pacific Diver is a similar case in point.

All a bit irrelevent in the case of the Swillington Gull tho its a Herring Gull, probably of northern origin, i.e subpecies argentatus.

G
 
Anybody here have any info on the White Stork around Ossett ?
I notice RBA have not commented on its origins but BG have it as esc, although today 2 further birds have also been reported in Cambs & Suffolk.

cheers
jason
 
garry1366 said:
Good questions Steppe Grey Shrike is a full species, Amur falcon is treated by most authorities as full and Black eared Kite by some but not all. Amur falcon and Black eared Kite although they have been seen in Britian haven't been accepted yet by the BOURC so they don't have an opinion on their species rank. When they get round to accepting them then they will decide which authority to follow and what they class them as, personally I would expect them to be considered full when the time comes. The Pacific Diver is a similar case in point.

All a bit irrelevent in the case of the Swillington Gull tho its a Herring Gull, probably of northern origin, i.e subpecies argentatus.

G
Click to expand...

BOU recognised Pacific Diver as a full species in the 5th Report of the Taxonomic sub-committee, Ibis (2008), 150: p 833, as they needed to establish Black-throated Diver is a separate species

They have not yet announced their verdict on the Farnham bird.

As soon as they do, and it will surely be positive, there is no problem wondering whether it is a full species or not...it is.
 
yoyo said:
Anybody here have any info on the White Stork around Ossett ?
I notice RBA have not commented on its origins but BG have it as esc, although today 2 further birds have also been reported in Cambs & Suffolk.

cheers
jason
Click to expand...


Likely to be a bird that has wandered from Harewood. I'm afraid any West Yorkshire White Stork doesn't stand a chance.

It could just be one of the birds that attempted to breed near there a couple of years back and has returned - unlikely though. If so it will be ringed, and these were iffy anyhow.

Not much point going for it to be honest unless you just want to see a WS in a wild environment, even if it has poor credentials.
 
Steve I thought at least one of the Horbury birds from a couple of years ago had pukka credentials? Ringed in France as a pullus wasn't it? I know the other bird was a bit iffy... escaped from a collection somewhere.
 
Chris-Leeds said:
Yeah, I'd checked the profile on Wikipedia and the Yanks take it as just a subspecies of Iceland gull. Birdguides still class it as tickable but as I'd not been able to pick out an Iceland previously it is still a lifer. I've always thought sub species a bit iffy as ticks.
How about the Amur falcon, black eared kite and Steppe grey shrike. Are they also sub species?

Chris.
Click to expand...

Chris, were it to be a Kumlein's I'd leave it alone rather than tick it as an Iceland, as they are generally regarded as hybrids, so it could equally claim to have Thayer's genes rendering it untickable.

The Steppe Grey sails straight on to the list as a full species.

Tick the Black-eared Kite as a race of Black kite for listing purposes. A race not a hybrid group.

Just got to wait with the Amur......in my case for the next one. Regarded as a species in its own right, but awaiting BOURC decision.
 
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Keith Dickinson said:
Steve I thought at least one of the Horbury birds from a couple of years ago had pukka credentials? Ringed in France as a pullus wasn't it? I know the other bird was a bit iffy... escaped from a collection somewhere.
Click to expand...

Well, as you say one was an escape, from a Belgian park from memory.

The other one was found in France in an emaciated condition, nursed back to health and released. I'd still be worried about this "pukka" bird for three reasons:

1) If emaciated did it stay in the north instead of migrating south - I'm guessing it was found at the wrong time of year aftar a cold snap - suggests the radar is off - suggests Dutch reintroduction?

2) The fact it was happy to breed in Horbury Wyke of all places - radar completely gone - again reintroduction scheme rather than normal instincts - especially when shacked up with an escaped northern wanderer?

3) How tickable is it if it's been held captive and nursed back to health?

I'd perhaps concede the latter if everything else appeared to fit (as I'd have ticked the Yellow-nosed A.), but it certainly didn't immediately fall in to the category of genuine wild bird. I think if it had, more would have been done to leave them to breed. I think a "they're escapes anyway" mentality was adopted. I'd love to be proven wrong on its credentials.
 
Last edited:
Kumlein's - Swilly

Have two birds been involved over the past week or so, or is this latest sighting that Garry is dismissing the same bird?
 
Chris-Leeds said:
Yeah, I'd checked the profile on Wikipedia and the Yanks take it as just a subspecies of Iceland gull. Birdguides still class it as tickable but as I'd not been able to pick out an Iceland previously it is still a lifer. I've always thought sub species a bit iffy as ticks.
How about the Amur falcon, black eared kite and Steppe grey shrike. Are they also sub species?

Chris.
Click to expand...

Amur Falcon is a full species, black-eared kite is contentious and steppe grey shrike is probably a full species but is definitely a tick as southern grey shrike as it stands. North American large gulls are a horrible complex that is horribly complex.
 
I guess gulls aren't so black and white after all, the picture of the dubious gull is an older picture and not from when I was there. It was pointed out to me and it didn't look anything other than a young gull, I just took their word for it. It didn't look to have any darkish parts to it so I'm not convinced it's the gull in the pic. Happy enough to concede Kumlien's. I'll just stick to the obvious.
 
Lawts said:
Have two birds been involved over the past week or so, or is this latest sighting that Garry is dismissing the same bird?
Click to expand...

Lawts,
There was a 2nd cal yr bird a few weeks ago which I didn't see and haven't seen any pics of so can't comment on the id of that bird, and now this bird tyhat was reported on Tues (I think) which from the pics is clearly a 3rd cal yr herring Gull.

G
 
Quote taken from Swillington's website
"In case anyone was wondering about Paul Morris’ question above, this was posted earlier today on Birdguides: Kumlien’s Gull, Swillington Ings juvenile and a juvenile Iceland Gull on the causeway at St. Aidan’s Lake viewed from the river bank near Shan House Bridge."

I could still have been looking at an Iceland rather than the Herring, that photo is a month old.
Not really bothered, it's not a life or death competition and I'm not going to lose sleep over something like this. I do what I do for my own enjoyment and not to outdo or impress other people so the gull is now scratched. :)
 

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