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Snipe id (1 Viewer)

Pluvius

Pluvius

Well-known member
I saw this bird with another birder on Tory Island and our first impressions were Great Snipe (I have never seen one) Up to ten years ago I had spent nearly thirty years rough shooting and am very familiar with snipe.

This bird was flushed and made no noise but flew about a metre off the ground for about forty metres. It looked almost as big as a woodcock. It flew straight and its wingbeat was far slower than snipe. We both simultaneously said is that a Great Snipe.

To me it seemed to have very white outer tail feathers. We looked for it initially unsuccessfully and then flushed it again where I got this fairly out of focus shot. Again it flew low away from us before disappearing.
 

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I don't think this is a Great Snipe, rather a Common Snipe IMHO, for the following reasons...

- Prominent white trailing edge to secondaries (would expect this to be much more reduced on Great.)
- No apparent white edge to greater,median and primary coverts. (In this shot the abscence/reduction of white trailing edge on Great and the white covert edgings would be apparent. Although the forewing is blurred and indistinct I feel that a hint of the white tipped coverts would show up in the shot..)
- Would expect much more white in the tail to be evident in this shot if it were a Great and clearly "zoned."

Its heavier appearance and build might correlate with it being the sub-species Gallinago. g. faeroeensis? Perhaps a migrant on its way to Northern lands?

Note the white showing in the outer tail feathers of the left-hand bird in this linked photo..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gallinago_gallinago_-Iceland_-two-8.jpg

Also a shot of a Great Snipe showing its striking clear-cut white outer-tail pattern, lack of distinct white edge to secondaries, and boldly white-edged upper wing-coverts.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4h8bg0c9R...pE/s1600/Great+Snipe+Cley+5.2011+%2822%29.JPG

Common Snipe showing the distinct white rear-edge to wing. Best seen against a dark background.

http://www.birdskorea.org/Images/images2008/04/Common-Snipe_TE-01.jpg
 
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It does seem to have too much white on the tail for common Snipe, I have no idea about the behaviour of Great snipe but what you describe sounds a bit more like Jack Snipe than Common but it may well fit Great Snipe too.

Size is always very difficult to judge but you being very familiar with Common Snipe and i'd guess Jack Snipe and Woodcock i'd say it might be a decent bet for Great snipe.
 
I'm in the Great Snipe camp....the out of focus shot is probably exaggerating the white trailing edge to the wing, and even allowing for the less than perfect shot, the generous wedges of white either side of the 'warm' rump, coupled with the observers long experience of 'rising' Snipe/Woodcock from the gun, to include size and flight patterns regularly seen over a thirty year period (almost certainly more experience than yer average birder)...my money's on it.
 
I would expect to see therefore some blurred white in the covert areas as well Ken, if it were a GS? But there is nothing...

Note the "Juvenile Great Spotted Cuckoo-like brilliance" of the white-tipped coverts on a Great Snipe. And the subdued trailing edge to the secondaries in these linked photos...

http://www.fairislebirdobs.co.uk/Sightings/2011/May/Jason Moss/Great Snipe2.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_67tw8qE92mA/S-aqA78w6OI/AAAAAAAATEE/nwTMwXTtmFs/s1600/Great+Snipe.jpg

http://huntinghorizons.com/species_full_images/gallinago_media_inflight.jpg


Gallinago. g. faeroeensis is well known to be bulkier/larger, and more sluggish on rising than Gallinago gallinago...

(I've already conversed with Pluvius, and he knows I'm not questioning his experience and skills. Just this Snipe did look odd, and behave differently to "the norm", as his account testifies. I've never knowingly witnessed G. g. faeroeensis in the field. But am well aware of it as a pitfall subspecies in relation to Great Snipe in litt. )

There, I've done my bit. No money down! B :);)
 
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I don't know. I really must say it looks like Great Snipe. I think the wide trailing edge actually is a combination of secondaries and greater coverts and that's why it looks so prominent. The tail looks spot on and the picture is very blurry and doesn't allow a proper view of the upper wing.

This together with the observers description of the behaviour leaves nothing else than Great Snipe for me.
 
I dont think we can ever been certain from that photo alone, but as everyone seems to agree the observer is obviously more experienced than most with this sort of view of the confusion species(Common Snipe,Jack Snipe and woodcock) so if he has good reason to think Great Snipe I'd be inclined to believe that and for all the photo might not be able to show conclusively that it is a Great Snipe i dont think it shows anything that rules out Great Snipe either.

Does anybody know about the normal behaviour of Great snipe when flushed? The description of flying low and for a short distance certain isnt the normal behaviour i've experienced with Common Snipe though i have seen that with Jack Snipe but that said i dont think the photo really looks like aJack snipe and i doubt the observer would make the mistake of thinking a smaller species is actually a larger one.
 
You'd really expect the trailing edge and the gc bar to be of equal weight for Great Snipe [though they may be merged,we'll never know] and the conditions that enhanced one to enhance the other and I really don't see enough white in the tail
 
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Check out these blurred shots from Spain which seem to back Janes's points.

http://www.rarebirdspain.net/arbsi019.htm

I have flushed Great Snipe (by chance - in Poland) - completely unaware of the bird until it rose at my feet - it flew a short distance, low to the ground, no towering or zig-zags and no call. On relocation it did the same thing but flew further. On balance I would have to be in the faeroensis camp because of the apparent lack of white tipped coverts and the amount and intensity of white in the tail not being quite good enough for GS. Oh for a side-on shot!

D
 
phil baber said:
Note the "Juvenile Great Spotted Cuckoo-like brilliance" of the white-tipped coverts on a Great Snipe. And the subdued trailing edge to the secondaries in these linked photos...

http://www.fairislebirdobs.co.uk/Sightings/2011/May/Jason Moss/Great Snipe2.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_67tw8qE92mA/S-aqA78w6OI/AAAAAAAATEE/nwTMwXTtmFs/s1600/Great+Snipe.jpg

http://huntinghorizons.com/species_full_images/gallinago_media_inflight.jpg
Click to expand...


Also how the darkest part of the wing is the mid-wing covert bar.
 
Mm! Looking and thinking a little more I withdraw my certain statement. ;-)

The behaviour is diagnostic for GS even though they usually don't fly as long as 40 m after being flushed. Phil's points are pretty heavy though.

This doesn't mean I'm perfectly convinced. Still think the tail is troubling and the rest is blurry. A CS shouldn't behave like that either (if not injured or something of course). :) But then again......;-)
 
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Two men...with one man at least having c30 years experience of hunting Woodcock/Snipe...probably having flushed the two commoner species and being aware of their respective trajectory's) infinitely more times than a herd of birders could achieve in a lifetime, noting the 'size difference'..the angle of climb and duration of flight. I can't conceive two 'experienced' people getting 'both' ID aids wrong, plus supplying..all be it a less than perfect back-up image which is supportive to the extent that...one would be hard pressed to discount the claim on the evidence submitted.
 
Pluvius said:
I just dont know what way to go with this ID Here is a snipe in flight shot I took http://www.flickr.com/photos/peregrinebirdphoto/4247969519/

and here is a similar shot of Gt Snipe going away taken on Fair Isle a month ago.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ta_tXY3FO...0/WuEE6P9zfP0/s1600/Great+Snipe+in+flight.jpg

Both Ronan McLaughlin and I as soon as we saw it said "Is that a Great Snipe" almost simultaneously.
Sadly will probably never know.
Click to expand...


Particulary the left wing of that Great Snipe shows how the white trailing edge can be a lot more obvious than its 'supposed' to be.
So far we've seen plenty of pics showing how this trailing edge doesnt fit Great snipe but perhaps it can especially on a blurred photo but i'm yet to see a photo of a Common Snipe that shows enough white on the tail as the bird in question though admittidly it perhaps doesnt look as clear cut as a Great Snipes tail should either but i'd say it looks closer to the white of a Great Snipe than the lack of white of a Common Snipe.

All of that said i think we all know how misleading a single photo can be but the fact that both of you(given your experience) immediately thought Great Snipe coupled with at least the lack of any decent evidence to suggest otherwise still makes me inclined towards Great Snipe.
 
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