Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Discover the ZEISS Digital Nature Hub

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Dark morph Red-tailed Hawk ?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average.
Old Monday 1st March 2004, 21:57   #1
Fulmar
Registered User
 
Fulmar's Avatar

 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Maastricht, Netherlands
Posts: 884
Dark morph Red-tailed Hawk ?

Would you agree that this is an immature dark morph Red-tailed Hawk ?

The photo was made February 7 along the Upper Newport Bay (aka Back Bay) in Newport Beach, Orange County, California. The bird is swooping down on a mouse from its perch. There is some orangy hue in the picture as it was made at 1700h (and at 1800h it was dark).

Peter
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Img0228.JPG
Views:	322
Size:	71.9 KB
ID:	5984  
Fulmar is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 1st March 2004, 22:41   #2
Katy Penland
Registered User
 
Katy Penland's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 10,758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulmar
Would you agree that this is an immature dark morph Red-tailed Hawk ?

The photo was made February 7 along the Upper Newport Bay (aka Back Bay) in Newport Beach, Orange County, California. The bird is swooping down on a mouse from its perch. There is some orangy hue in the picture as it was made at 1700h (and at 1800h it was dark).

Peter
Sure looks like it to me, with that dark patagial mark.
Katy Penland is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2010 2014 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Tuesday 2nd March 2004, 01:26   #3
Grousemore
Senior Member
 
Grousemore's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 3,581
Too tough for me,Peter..the tail banding particularly.
I'm good at Red Shouldered's,but don't see that many Red-Tails in Florida.Great pic though!
Grousemore is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2004 2005 2006 2007 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Tuesday 2nd March 2004, 02:11   #4
Katy Penland
Registered User
 
Katy Penland's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 10,758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grousemore
Too tough for me,Peter..the tail banding particularly.
I'm good at Red Shouldered's,but don't see that many Red-Tails in Florida.Great pic though!
Y'know, that tail banding threw me at first, too, but since what I think we're seeing here is the underside of the tail, and if this is a more mature juvenile, the lack of banding would be right as the "red" part of the tail isn't as obvious from the underside as it is from the top (and it isn't banded in full adults). But the dark patagial on the leading edge of the wing is almost exclusively diagnostic of red-tails (except for a very few exceptions).

However, raptor expert I'm not, so I hope someone else jumps in here with more experience of juvies. This, BTW, is about the hardest sp of raptor to ID (IMH experience) because of all the numerous morphs and "types."

And, yes, great action shot!
Katy Penland is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2010 2014 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Tuesday 2nd March 2004, 03:02   #5
Strix
Registered User
 
Strix's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 154
[quote=Fulmar]Would you agree that this is an immature dark morph Red-tailed Hawk ?

Yep, I don't see dark morphs too often myself, but I'd say this looks good for an imm dark morph RT.
Strix is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 2nd March 2004, 03:54   #6
Grousemore
Senior Member
 
Grousemore's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 3,581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katy Penland

However, raptor expert I'm not, so I hope someone else jumps in here with more experience of juvies. This, BTW, is about the hardest sp of raptor to ID (IMH experience) because of all the numerous morphs and "types."

And, yes, great action shot!
I agree Katy.I've been looking at a website (Buteo.com)and am none the wiser on Peter's bird.
Here's the link: http://www.buteo.com/redtail.html#
Grousemore is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2004 2005 2006 2007 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Tuesday 2nd March 2004, 04:08   #7
Katy Penland
Registered User
 
Katy Penland's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 10,758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grousemore
I agree Katy.I've been looking at a website (Buteo.com)and am none the wiser on Peter's bird.
Here's the link: http://www.buteo.com/redtail.html#
Nice site that is! I'm gonna go spend some time there, check it out. Thank you!

Even my "North American Raptors" book didn't have a shot of a red-tail that was similar to Peter's, and it's the "bible" we US birders use for raptor ID. Goes to show how variable this sp can be. In fact, a state birds committee one time had a bird ID quiz that turned out to be a juvie red-tail, but you can't believe the dozens of different guesses they got for input!

(I'm still jazzed about the red kite I saw when in Aberystwyth last June. Didn't see many raptors on my trip but *that* was very special.)
Katy Penland is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2010 2014 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Tuesday 2nd March 2004, 13:07   #8
Fulmar
Registered User
 
Fulmar's Avatar

 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Maastricht, Netherlands
Posts: 884
I came to my provisional identification mainly by elimination. In the end the only one remaining was the Red-tailed Hawk. Especially when looking at the wing only, I think the only choice could be Red-tailed, as the pattern was right, and especially the diagnostic dark patagial (new word for me!) marks. But then the tail markings puzzled me, as I could find no documentation of a Red-tailed with such a plain tail. Only the Sibley's has a dark juvenile with light banding on the tail and no broad endband, but still heavier than on "my" bird. However, under close scrutiny, very faint banding can be seen, I have attached a lightened close-up of the tail where you can see this (Katy, the tail is indeed the underside).

Peter
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Img0228-2.JPG
Views:	247
Size:	17.9 KB
ID:	6000  
Fulmar is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 23rd January 2013, 04:06   #9
TMFF
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 1
Wow! What an old thread I am responding to! I wanted to add that the bland greyish tail and dark overll morph look like a Harlan's red-tailed hawk.
TMFF is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 23rd January 2013, 05:47   #10
ceasar
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NE Pennsylvania
Posts: 12,003
Yes, it is an old thread but to answer your question it is not likely a "Harlans" in this location in Orange County, CA. Wheeler's range maps do not show them this far south of California's Central Valley in the winter. And they are not common in California overall.

The "Western" Red-tailed Hawk B. j. calurus is very common throughout California year round and there are varieties of "Dark Morph" variants of it. (Such as dark intermediate or dark rufous; intermediate or rufous.) There are many pictures of them in Wheelers RAPTORS of Western North America if you can find a copy of it. It has 82 photographs of 6 different sub-species of Red-tailed Hawks in it. It has quite a number of photographs of both "Harlans" and "Western" RTHs. More than 30 total.

Bob

PS: I notice this is your 1st post and so "Welcome to Bird Forum!"

Last edited by ceasar : Wednesday 23rd January 2013 at 05:58. Reason: Add Post Script
ceasar is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2010 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Wednesday 23rd January 2013, 11:20   #11
Fulmar
Registered User
 
Fulmar's Avatar

 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Maastricht, Netherlands
Posts: 884
New replies after nine years! Wow! Thanks for the renewed interest.

Peter
Fulmar is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Request help with hawk ID Bird Nut Bird Identification Q&A 4 Saturday 25th September 2004 07:52
Need help identifying a hawk Skylord Bird Identification Q&A 5 Sunday 21st December 2003 01:37
Did I see a Red Tail Hawk? crowfeather Birds Of Prey 6 Monday 13th October 2003 17:42
Hawk Migration in the Americas Beverlybaynes Birds Of Prey 0 Wednesday 16th April 2003 12:08
Very Light Morph Red-tailed Hawk mymantra Birds Of Prey 12 Friday 14th March 2003 20:46



Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.14193201 seconds with 24 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 04:24.