An absolute must have for any military bino collector (1 Viewer)

Hello everyone,

My package from Germany finally arrived today and I am thrilled. It is a pair of refurbished Hensoldt Fero D16's with the reticle and laser filter removed for better light transmission.

I had a quick walk through a nearby provincial wildlife park, along with my Monarch HG 10x42's. First thing I immediately noticed was the contrast, sharpness and fairly neutral colour in the centre. In the sweet spot, I believe these Fero D16's will definitely compete with today's "sub-alphas" and perhaps some even true alphas. However, the sharpness does fall off rather quickly (75% to the edge?) and the field of view is not very large to begin with.

The brightness is definitely a defining trait of this bino, as expected of a high-quality porro with modern coatings. It is noticeably brighter than my HG's, despite the 10x42 format having a slightly larger exit pupil. The "3-D effect" that porro fans enjoy is very healthy here. I love the feeling of looking at little toy houses and trees as I scan across long distances with a great depth of field. Overall, I think it is about as comfortable a view as you can get from the 8x30 format, though it's been a long time since I've looked through EII's and SE's.

Durability and build quality are of course exceptional and the "new old surplus" rubber gives off an amazing new car smell. Zeiss/Hensolt rubber armoring in good condition is now one of my favorite things in binoculars. The included strap is fantastic as well and makes me wonder if it is standard issue equipment for the German military. There's no markings on it whatsoever and I doubt the vendor went out of his way to supply a strap for strapless stock.

Anyway, sorry for the sudden rambling. I am very happy with the purchase and eagerly await the arrival of my used Dialyt 7x42 T* P*' from the US, so I can do some comparisons. A full, detailed write-up on my impressions is coming soon - whatever that is worth. 3


*Frontal view and a shot of my collection for size comparison (long overdue!)
Excuse the non-existent technique

They are truly super robust, shock and water proof and lightweight. However your DF (Zeiss East) might be of higher optical quality? And the Hensoldt (Zeiss West) Fero D16 even more so?
Nice collection.

Thank you for your kind words. When a German collector with knowledge of the military classics gives me compliments, I am humbled.

As for the DF 7x40, my particular model was made shortly before Zeiss Jena started introducing multi-coatings. I'm frankly not sure what the waterproofing standard is on this older model, but I do know the multi-coated models came with provisions for nitrogen purging.

Regardless, she rests in an airtight container in my closet most of the time and is used gingerly. It feels right to give the old warhorse some rest.

I own some Steiner 7x50 Commander military/marine, some EDF 7x40 and my favorite Docter Nobilem 10x50 (Zeiss Jena legacy sort of).
I keep the Steiner but it's almost retired as the Docter and the EDF get mostly used. Your older DF is said to be even better than the EDF optically (it's a military version of CZJ's civil flagship binoculars back then) but the EDF is nuclear war radiation proof. Who could ask for more?

Sebzwo said:

I own some Steiner 7x50 Commander military/marine, some EDF 7x40 and my favorite Docter Nobilem 10x50 (Zeiss Jena legacy sort of).
I keep the Steiner but it's almost retired as the Docter and the EDF get mostly used. Your older DF is said to be even better than the EDF optically (it's a military version of CZJ's civil flagship binoculars back then) but the EDF is nuclear war radiation proof. Who could ask for more?

Click to expand...

That is quite the snazzy collection your have yourself! :t:
I am a huge fan of optics with a East German pedigree, and both the DF and EDF are certainly crown jewels in that respect. Moreover, the 10x50 Nobilem is truly in the "king-class" of large, high-performance porros, and is undoubtedly a favorite among stargazers.

Regarding the optical differences between the DF and EDF, my understanding is that the EDF took a hit in the field of view and of course, gained that iconic yellow tint from the robust radiation treatment. However, the commercial models produced under the Docter brand removed the radiation treatment and truly elevated the binos, as far as civilian and police applications.

The DF certainly wins in field of view and neutral colours, but the loss of sharpness at the edge is somewhat noticeable and I reckon that even the multi-coatings were surpassed in the EDF. I believe the EDF - even without the phase coatings it deserved, but never got - will handily outperform the DF in contrast.

Regardless, I am very happy to have a fellow fan of the Cold War Jena on here!

Hi,

nice collection... you're missing the Hensoldt DF (the first pair built for german Bundeswehr) and the Fero D12 (which Steiner talked the Bundeswehr into buying because who needs serviceability when you just can buy a new pair).

Ok, the Fero D12 is more for completeness sake, but the DF 8x30 is actually nice.

Joachim

jring said:

Hi,

nice collection... you're missing the Hensoldt DF (the first pair built for german Bundeswehr) and the Fero D12 (which Steiner talked the Bundeswehr into buying because who needs serviceability when you just can buy a new pair).

Ok, the Fero D12 is more for completeness sake, but the DF 8x30 is actually nice.

Joachim

Click to expand...

Hi Joachim, the Fero D12 itch has been satisfied by its modern, civilian counterpart on the right side there (with free lifetime replacements from Steiner USA!), but I am quite interested in the DF 8x30 myself. I was actually choosing between the DF and D16 for a while before my purchase, but the superior coatings, contrast and availability of mint, refurbished pairs swayed me towards the latter.
I do wish to try the wide 8 degree FOV of the DF, however, now that you've brought up the bino. Out of curiosity, which aspects of the DF 8x30 have your fancy?

The DF 7x40 is pretty bullet proof, plus it is wonderfully easy to look through.
Transmission is admittedly sub par, about 60%, but a 7x40 has light to spare.
The IF is really the only obstacle to its being a superb birding tool, generous eye relief, good FoV and super robust.
The EDF is comparably robust, but Docter for some reason never gave it the phase coating and the CF that would have made it into a successor to the Zeiss 8x30 Safari.

etudiant said:

Zeiss 8x30 Safari

Click to expand...

You have got to be kidding me. Now I have to research another one. :t:

Arthur Red Rod said:

You have got to be kidding me. Now I have to research another one. :t:

Click to expand...

Hello Arthur,

On this forum, the late John Dracon posted an anecdote or two about the Zeiss Safaris, 8x30 individual focussing binoculars in green armour. Binoculars which were waterproof and very durable. Nikon even produced a clone calling it a "Safari," as well. The Zeiss safari was a roof prism glass but it was not phase coated, except for a limited batch made for the British Army.

Stay safe,
Arthur

Pinewood said:

Hello Arthur,

On this forum, the late John Dracon posted an anecdote or two about the Zeiss Safaris, 8x30 individual focussing binoculars in green armour. Binoculars which were waterproof and very durable. Nikon even produced a clone calling it a "Safari," as well. The Zeiss safari was a roof prism glass but it was not phase coated, except for a limited batch made for the British Army.

Stay safe,
Arthur

Click to expand...

Are these the Nikon clones? I've seen a bunch of these floating around the bay for a while, but could never get a real ID on the model. They are simply sold as '8x30D 7.5 degree Military", or something along those lines by all Japanese vendors.

Edit: It is. A true Japanese Nikon with a military inspiration stemming back to a Zeiss classic... Very interesting.

Nikon camo I F binocular

Here is my Nikon individual focus binocular Well might not be military but very interesting.
Forgot to say it is 8x30

mooreorless said:

Here is my Nikon individual focus binocular Well might not be military but very interesting.

Click to expand...

That's about as military "looking" as it gets though. Sweet OEM camo job. It is really something else. :clap:

Arthur Red Rod said:

Out of curiosity, which aspects of the DF 8x30 have your fancy?

Click to expand...

Hi,

to be realistic, the DF 8x30 is not a competitive pair of bins when compared to current pairs. The main disadvantages are the lack of eye relief and multicoatings. If you want to go birding, the IF doesn't help either.

On the other hand, a visibly used pair can be had for 50-70€ on german ebay and the view (strictly w/o glasses) is surprisingly nice, albeit a bit darker than what you are used to from modern pairs.

My pair is in the car permanently - they were designed for abuse.

PS: fun story - when I was in the german army, the DF should have been replaced for some ears with Steiners. Albeit, this didn't happen - who had one, kept it and even paid a case of beer or two to get it repaired after hours by the optical repairmen with scrounged parts rather than trade it for a D12. Two of my roommates did this quite often and it was funny to see NCOs or even officers come to our housings and bring in a case of beer in exchange for their fixed bins... and the two guys even shared the beer ;-)

Joachim

jring said:

Hi,

to be realistic, the DF 8x30 is not a competitive pair of bins when compared to current pairs. The main disadvantages are the lack of eye relief and multicoatings. If you want to go birding, the IF doesn't help either.

On the other hand, a visibly used pair can be had for 50-70€ on german ebay and the view (strictly w/o glasses) is surprisingly nice, albeit a bit darker than what you are used to from modern pairs.

My pair is in the car permanently - they were designed for abuse.

PS: fun story - when I was in the german army, the DF should have been replaced for some ears with Steiners. Albeit, this didn't happen - who had one, kept it and even paid a case of beer or two to get it repaired after hours by the optical repairmen with scrounged parts rather than trade it for a D12. Two of my roommates did this quite often and it was funny to see NCOs or even officers come to our housings and bring in a case of beer in exchange for their fixed bins... and the two guys even shared the beer ;-)

Joachim

Click to expand...

3 Joachim, old stories from service really are the funniest. The price of DF's in Germany is too good to pass up. Sadly, my options here cost at least several hundred. It's hilarious that the D12's are so fiercely avoided by the people it was made for, yet in North America, they are considered by many novice hunters to be a top German optic. Mine went right back into the car after the photo.

jring said:

Hi,

to be realistic, the DF 8x30 is not a competitive pair of bins when compared to current pairs. The main disadvantages are the lack of eye relief and multicoatings. If you want to go birding, the IF doesn't help either.

On the other hand, a visibly used pair can be had for 50-70€ on german ebay and the view (strictly w/o glasses) is surprisingly nice, albeit a bit darker than what you are used to from modern pairs.

My pair is in the car permanently - they were designed for abuse.

PS: fun story - when I was in the german army, the DF should have been replaced for some ears with Steiners. Albeit, this didn't happen - who had one, kept it and even paid a case of beer or two to get it repaired after hours by the optical repairmen with scrounged parts rather than trade it for a D12. Two of my roommates did this quite often and it was funny to see NCOs or even officers come to our housings and bring in a case of beer in exchange for their fixed bins... and the two guys even shared the beer ;-)

Joachim

Click to expand...

Surely says more about how the users felt about the Steiners.
Afaik, the US Army was also gulled into buying the Steiner replace, don't repair, concept, but soon discovered that the average soldier has far too much skill at breaking things.

etudiant said:

Surely says more about how the users felt about the Steiners.
Afaik, the US Army was also gulled into buying the Steiner replace, don't repair, concept, but soon discovered that the average soldier has far too much skill at breaking things.

Click to expand...

US Marines certainly have earned that reputation - there's an old joke about a broken ball bearing...

Arthur Red Rod said:

3 Joachim, old stories from service really are the funniest. The price of DF's in Germany is too good to pass up. Sadly, my options here cost at least several hundred. It's hilarious that the D12's are so fiercely avoided by the people it was made for, yet in North America, they are considered by many novice hunters to be a top German optic. Mine went right back into the car after the photo.

Click to expand...

Hi,

for all those that consider the Steiner Fero D12 to be top german optics I would recommend Holger on west german military 8x30 pairs...

http://www.holgermerlitz.de/zeiss8x30.html

Joachim

jring said:

Hi,

for all those that consider the Steiner Fero D12 to be top german optics I would recommend Holger on west german military 8x30 pairs...

http://www.holgermerlitz.de/zeiss8x30.html

Joachim

Click to expand...

Yes, many Americans have a closet "Germanophilia" that makes them think anything that says "Germany" on it must perform like a Porsche.

You would find it amusing :king:

Arthur Red Rod said:

Yes, many Americans have a closet "Germanophilia" that makes them think anything that says "Germany" on it must perform like a Porsche.

You would find it amusing :king:

Click to expand...

Well, I’m an American and I don’t find it funny at all to have so many countrymen who CLAIM to be seriously interested in binoculars but are totally CLUELESS about how the manufacturing/importing/rebranding/ and retail program works. Those who know are not going to publish this information. On the other hand, its not a secret, either.:-C:-C:-C:cat:

Bill