Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Zeiss - Always on the lookout for something special – Shop now

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Straight or angled scope

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Tuesday 9th April 2019, 21:30   #76
Dd61999
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 96
Using more muscle will disrupt your sight picture over time, especially at higher magnification

In addition if you noticed with straight, the body/eyes are in alignment with your optic and the object your looking at. You can close your eyes for ten seconds and still be aligned with the object, without concentration. This is not always the case with angled scopes.

This not only helps in image quality overtime but helps you get on target quickly and naturally.

There is more to it then this. You also want to focus on your skeleton rather then muscle. Learn how to shift alignment, breathing, heart rate, pointing, etc...there is plenty of info online if you want to learn

Last edited by Dd61999 : Tuesday 9th April 2019 at 21:39.
Dd61999 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 9th April 2019, 21:36   #77
Hauksen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 772
Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
For those interested who, is using more muscles when glassing
I don't think anyone ever asked that question in this thread, but I'm afraid by throwing one guy with an ergonomically really badly chosen tripod into the comparison, you're not achieving much more than proving your own unfair bias.

Regards,

Henning
__________________
3D Printable Objects for Bird Watching: https://www.thingiverse.com/groups/bird-watching/things
Hauksen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 9th April 2019, 21:50   #78
mooreorless
Registered User
 
mooreorless's Avatar

 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Huntingdon,Pa.
Posts: 3,500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
For those interested, who is using more muscles when glassing

Angled
What if that fellow with the angled scope was using a straight scope with that tripod? That would really be rough.

Last edited by mooreorless : Tuesday 9th April 2019 at 21:52.
mooreorless is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 9th April 2019, 21:53   #79
Hauksen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 772
Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
I said your not familiar with NPA not straight scopes. Otherwise you have your answer for #2 and #6
What you said was exactly this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
I clearly did not dismiss angled spotting scopes. I made a case for straight scopes in SOME applications. Yet you wanted make an argument against it when you are not even familiar with it.
Nothing in that quote suggests "it" was meant to mean "Natural Point of Aim", and I'm happy to admit that I'm unable to read minds over the internet.

Giving you the benefit of "Oh, if that's what you meant", you still haven't answered #2 to #6 even rudimentarily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
I gave you a synopsis of NPA earlier
Not in the sense the OED understands synopsis: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/synopsis

From where I was standing, it looked more like a lame teaser combined with a bold claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
Peace be with you brother...enjoy your angled scope
That I pointed out right in this thread that I also have a straight scope didn't register with you, did it?

Regards,

Henning
__________________
3D Printable Objects for Bird Watching: https://www.thingiverse.com/groups/bird-watching/things
Hauksen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 9th April 2019, 21:55   #80
Dd61999
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hauksen View Post
Hi,



I don't think anyone ever asked that question in this thread, but I'm afraid by throwing one guy with an ergonomically really badly chosen tripod into the comparison, you're not achieving much more than proving your own unfair bias.

Regards,

Henning
It’s for reference take it or leave it

Your still using more muscle with angled scopes compared to looking straight ahead, regardless how good your tripod is.

Plus your eye and body is not in alignment with the object

Hundreds if not thousands of people get trained in NPA everyday, many using optics. So my bias can’t be all wrong.

Once again I’ll let any potential reader decide
Dd61999 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 9th April 2019, 22:04   #81
Hauksen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 772
Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
It’s for reference take it or leave it
Well, I do like your approach to use pictures.

One of a NPA practitioner viewing a bird through a tripod would be quite interesting ... full shot, preferrably.

Regards,

Henning
__________________
3D Printable Objects for Bird Watching: https://www.thingiverse.com/groups/bird-watching/things
Hauksen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 9th April 2019, 22:18   #82
Dd61999
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hauksen View Post
Hi,



Well, I do like your approach to use pictures.

One of a NPA practitioner viewing a bird through a tripod would be quite interesting ... full shot, preferrably.

Regards,

Henning

I wouldn’t be surprised the next time you use your scope, your going to try some of the things I talked about.....I also wouldn’t be surprised if you had a thought saying, “that son of a biscuit might be right”
Dd61999 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 9th April 2019, 22:30   #83
Hauksen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 772
Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
I wouldn’t be surprised the next time you use your scope, your going to try some of the things I talked about.....I also wouldn’t be surprised if you had a thought saying, “that son of a biscuit might be right”
That would require you to decribe the technique precisely enough to understand it - which you quite persistently refused to do.

I appreciate your optimism, but it's not me bottle-necking information here ...

Regards,

Henning
__________________
3D Printable Objects for Bird Watching: https://www.thingiverse.com/groups/bird-watching/things
Hauksen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 9th April 2019, 23:10   #84
Dd61999
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hauksen View Post
Hi,



That would require you to decribe the technique precisely enough to understand it - which you quite persistently refused to do.

I appreciate your optimism, but it's not me bottle-necking information here ...

Regards,

Henning
I gave you the basics, I think you just want me to dance.

I’m sure your curiosity will have you learning the rest
Dd61999 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 9th April 2019, 23:31   #85
Hauksen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 772
Hi ,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
I gave you the basics, I think you just want me to dance.
You mean your "synopsis"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hauksen View Post
Not in the sense the OED understands synopsis: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/synopsis

From where I was standing, it looked more like a lame teaser combined with a bold claim.
With regard to dancing ... I've had quite enough of you performing the Evasive Hop.

You still owe me #2 to #6, and your resolve to defend your stance on #1 seems to have fizzled out after my first response on that. Or did I change your mind and we're in agreement now?

Regards,

Henning
__________________
3D Printable Objects for Bird Watching: https://www.thingiverse.com/groups/bird-watching/things
Hauksen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 9th April 2019, 23:43   #86
Kevin Conville
yardbirder
BF Supporter 2019
 
Kevin Conville's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: State of Chaos
Posts: 2,032
I really don't have a dog in this race but I can't help but notice you being a little disingenuous with some of your examples and comments.

This quote below ignores sharing a scope between multiple people. Where a taller person stoops to set up a scope for a shorter person. And an even shorter person does a tippy toe to see through the EP. One tends to strike a compromise in height rather than constantly adjusting the tripod. Especially true with less patient critters you may be trying to see.

Also looking through ANYTHING for "hours" will get to most people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
Depends on your viewing, if your looking up all the time, then possibly yes

But if your looking straight ahead. Glassing for hours with an angled scope can cause a strain too, since you are looking in a unnatural position

In the photo example you posted with the following, the guy has the tripod set too low and is stooped to look through it. Now it may have been set up for a shorter person and that would explain the stoop, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
For those interested, who is using more muscles when glassing
Angled
In the example you show that accompanies this quote the guy has the tripod adjusted so he can stand erect. ...in this example the shorter person wouldn't be able to see through the EP without adjusting the tripod.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
Or straight
I can post a photo of a guy using a pair of Zeiss binoculars backwards but I wouldn't claim they don't work as well as Leicas pointed in the right direction.

Back to the OPs question, he's 6'2" tall. He's going to need a pretty tall tripod looking up in that canopy with a straight scope. Taller tripods tends to be heavier and more expensive and really require a lot of adjustments when the angles get steep, up or down. This is all based on my experience with them and you may have a theoretical example that shows I'm wrong but like Bob Dylan once wrote: "I don't need a weather man to show me when the wind blows"
__________________
my bird pics

Scott's Miracle Grow KILLING Birds, for Years!
read this: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=226714

Last edited by Kevin Conville : Wednesday 10th April 2019 at 00:10.
Kevin Conville is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 00:09   #87
Dd61999
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Conville View Post
I really don't have a dog in this race but I can't help but notice you being a little disingenuous with some of your examples and comments.

This quote below ignores sharing a scope between multiple people. Where a taller person stoops to set up a scope for a shorter person. And an even shorter person does a tippy toe to see through the EP. One tends to strike a compromise in height rather than constantly adjusting the tripod. Especially true with less patient critters you may be trying to see.

Also looking through ANYTHING for "hours" will get to most people.


In the photo example you posted with the following, the guy has the tripod set too low and is stooped to look through it.


In the example you show that accompanies this quote the guy has the tripod adjusted so he can stand erect.


I can post a photo of a guy using a pair of Zeiss binoculars backwards but I wouldn't claim they don't work as well as Leicas pointed in the right direction.

I agree, straight scopes require more adjustments for sharing. But if your looking for the best scope for you as an individual and you agree with the concept. Then “straight” might be a better fit

Yes one eyed, all day glassing does get to most people, that’s why many are using more powerful 12x/15x Alpha binoculars these days when glassing large canyons and reserve the scope to zoom in once that object is identified. Including me. Many of these same sportsman prefer straight scope, so they can switch back and forth regularly with less adjustment. Matter of fact they are having the same discussion in their forums.that we are having here currently.

The point I was trying to make with the pictures, is that the eyesight isn’t in alignment with the scope or object being looked at. In addition it requires more muscles to be used when utilizing a angled scope. When muscles are used, the amount of time you can glass comfortably is much shorter. Because just like lifting weights your body can only hold time under tension for so long before you shake, get tired, or become weak. NPA focuses on your internal bone structure and you can hold on to that position for a very long time.

Regarding the canopy. Yes, the angled scope can potentially be more comfortable depending on the angle, but they will loose out on the function to “point shoot” the same way you would with a pair of binoculars. Sportsman often use small light weight tripods over their body to eliminate muscle movement while sitting to achieve high angles. For astronomy I lay flat while my spotting scope is pointed at zenith. Keep in mind this is more comfortable then using a 45 degree angle spotting scope looking at zenith in addition to being able to view much longer. The 45 degree angle spotting scope has little to no fans in astronomy forums. But then again all spotting scopes are mostly despised by astronomers

Last edited by Dd61999 : Wednesday 10th April 2019 at 00:29.
Dd61999 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 07:07   #88
Troubador
Moderator
 
Troubador's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 8,814
To add to Henning's list of issues with straight scopes I would add that once the tripod is extended in order that a straight scope can be used it is far more susceptible to wind shake. When I use a scope it is mainly in the west of Scotland on the coasts and islands and there is always wind so this point is very important for me.

Angled scopes have their issues too (use from a car for example, and discomfort for the tallest observer in a group using a tripod set up for the shortest so that everyone can see what the scope is aimed at) but taken over all it seems to me that angled is more effective in the field.

I used to use straights but angled works better for me and aiming along the side of the tube hasn't been hard to learn. I can appreciate the ease of aim of a straight scope but Henning's list sums up the various other problems and I can't find one that is at all 'false' or exaggerated.

Lee
Moderator
Troubador is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 08:14   #89
Hauksen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 772
Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
I agree, straight scopes require more adjustments for sharing. But if your looking for the best scope for you as an individual and you agree with the concept. Then “straight” might be a better fit
Even for a single user, a straight scope requires more adjustments as soon as you pan or tilt the scope.

On my tiny straight Nikon ED50, the eyepiece extends ca. 140 mm behind the tripod screw, which depending on what adapter plate you use is on the pivot point or very close to it.

That means if you pan the scope, the eyepiece travels in a wide arc, and you need to position your head quite accurately behind a straight scope to get a good picture.

On the angled ED50A, not only is the eyepiece displacement smaller by about 30 mm, reducing the sweep of the arc, it's also much easier to place your eye in the best position by slightly varying seating angle, head inclination etc.

The same applies in tilt, where raising the line of sight by 10 degree inclination lowers the eye position by ca. 24 mm on the straight ED50, requiring an immediate adjustment in tripod extension to keep the same viewing position.

Again, it's much easier to adjust your body position to keep viewing with the same sight line raise on an angled scope as you're not committed to an upright body and head stance. The various back, neck, and eyeball angles give you several degrees of freedom with an angled scope, which is the reason pretty much everyone else here is in agreement that overall, observing with an angled scope is ergonomically more favourable.

(The arc in which the eyepiece sweeps is typcially greater for most straight scope than for my small Nikon ED50 ... as pointed out before, my girlfriend's straight Televid 77 is a lot longer than the Nikon, though I don't have it at hand to check the exact dimensions. A wider arc obviously requires greater adjustments and increases the disadvantage of the straight scope.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
Many of these same sportsman prefer straight scope, so they can switch back and forth regularly with less adjustment.
Most birders prefer angled scopes, for all the reasons already lined out in this thread and probably some more. I don't see any need to emphasize the experience of hunters, who pursue a quite different "sport" than birders, and from what I can tell from reading a limited sample of hunting-centric optics reviews, have quite their own ideas of what's important in optics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
When muscles are used, the amount of time you can glass comfortably is much shorter.
If you are staring at one spot for a prolonged period of time and don't pan or tilt, the straight scope might conceivably be (slightly) superior. However, I don't think that's a very common scenario for birders.

As soon as you start panning and tilting, you're moving, and you generate changing loads on a variety of muscles, allowing those that are momentarily relaxed to recover from the strain. That's different from your "weight lifting" model where the muscles are stressed continuously, which in fact doesn't really suit them well.

Due to the greater ease of adjustment of the body position to the viewing position with an angled scope, that's where the angled scope wins. Quite a few people here pointed out repeatedly that angles scopes are more convenient to use, and I think that's completely justified.

Regards,

Henning
__________________
3D Printable Objects for Bird Watching: https://www.thingiverse.com/groups/bird-watching/things
Hauksen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 10:04   #90
pete_gamby
Birds? What Birds?!

 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Welwyn Garden City
Posts: 989
From our point of view as a supplier predominantly to wildlife watchers rather than to those glassing for hunting, our sales are 9:1 angled vs straight.

I was once told that "no one in Sweden buys a straight scope for birding" - if you check the website of Gunnar Olssons Foto or of Naturbokhandeln, you'll see only three straight scopes offered for sale and all are Swarovski models (STS, STX and STR MRAD).

Cheers, Pete
__________________
Pete Gamby
Sales & Marketing Manager - Opticron
pete_gamby is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 10:47   #91
dalat
.
 
dalat's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,520
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete_gamby View Post
From our point of view as a supplier predominantly to wildlife watchers rather than to those glassing for hunting, our sales are 9:1 angled vs straight.
Yes, this was similarely confirmed by other retailers catering to birders, here in this forum and elsewhere. Zeiss recent decision to make their new top line scope only as a angled version is certainly based on similar considerations.

Whatever hunters, astronomers, "sportsmen", etc. may prefer for their particular type of use, for birding the larger majority of birders perfer angled. All the reasons why angled is better (in most cases) for birding have been mentionned above.

And the only real disadvantage of an angled scope, less intuitive aiming, is easily remediated at no cost with a zip tie
dalat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 11:04   #92
Dd61999
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 96
Most popular cars and trucks are Toyota Camry and Ford F-150. Sports car production is minuscule in comparison

Does that mean the Camry and F150 offer better performance on a racetrack? No, not at all.
Dd61999 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 11:07   #93
Dd61999
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalat View Post

And the only real disadvantage of an angled scope, less intuitive aiming, is easily ........
To some people this is a big deal
Dd61999 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 11:13   #94
dalat
.
 
dalat's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
To some people this is a big deal
To some 10 % of birders. And to you, but I think we got that by now.
dalat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 11:27   #95
Dd61999
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hauksen View Post
Hi,



Even for a single user, a straight scope requires more adjustments as soon as you pan or tilt the scope.

On my tiny straight Nikon ED50, the eyepiece extends ca. 140 mm behind the tripod screw, which depending on what adapter plate you use is on the pivot point or very close to it.

That means if you pan the scope, the eyepiece travels in a wide arc, and you need to position your head quite accurately behind a straight scope to get a good picture.

On the angled ED50A, not only is the eyepiece displacement smaller by about 30 mm, reducing the sweep of the arc, it's also much easier to place your eye in the best position by slightly varying seating angle, head inclination etc.

The same applies in tilt, where raising the line of sight by 10 degree inclination lowers the eye position by ca. 24 mm on the straight ED50, requiring an immediate adjustment in tripod extension to keep the same viewing position.

Again, it's much easier to adjust your body position to keep viewing with the same sight line raise on an angled scope as you're not committed to an upright body and head stance. The various back, neck, and eyeball angles give you several degrees of freedom with an angled scope, which is the reason pretty much everyone else here is in agreement that overall, observing with an angled scope is ergonomically more favourable.

(The arc in which the eyepiece sweeps is typcially greater for most straight scope than for my small Nikon ED50 ... as pointed out before, my girlfriend's straight Televid 77 is a lot longer than the Nikon, though I don't have it at hand to check the exact dimensions. A wider arc obviously requires greater adjustments and increases the disadvantage of the straight scope.)



Most birders prefer angled scopes, for all the reasons already lined out in this thread and probably some more. I don't see any need to emphasize the experience of hunters, who pursue a quite different "sport" than birders, and from what I can tell from reading a limited sample of hunting-centric optics reviews, have quite their own ideas of what's important in optics.



If you are staring at one spot for a prolonged period of time and don't pan or tilt, the straight scope might conceivably be (slightly) superior. However, I don't think that's a very common scenario for birders.

As soon as you start panning and tilting, you're moving, and you generate changing loads on a variety of muscles, allowing those that are momentarily relaxed to recover from the strain. That's different from your "weight lifting" model where the muscles are stressed continuously, which in fact doesn't really suit them well.

Due to the greater ease of adjustment of the body position to the viewing position with an angled scope, that's where the angled scope wins. Quite a few people here pointed out repeatedly that angles scopes are more convenient to use, and I think that's completely justified.

Regards,

Henning
NPA doesn’t mean you stay in one position. You move quite a bit, matter of fact much more so then birding when shooting multiple targets in very fast succession. With no time to adjust your aim with zip ties for each new object your looking at. Otherwise you will loose big time

You simply cannot achieve NPA with a angled scope. Your sight is out of alignment. There is no denying this.

Try using your zip tie trick on a peregrine falcon in full speed, I bet you will fail miserably. But you can use Point shooting techniques easily with your straight spotter.

Last edited by Dd61999 : Wednesday 10th April 2019 at 11:52.
Dd61999 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 11:48   #96
Dd61999
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalat View Post
To some 10 % of birders. And to you, but I think we got that by now.
Agreed
Dd61999 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 12:03   #97
Hauksen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 772
Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
NPA doesn’t mean you stay in one position.
You were talking about prolonged observing there. All of my statements apply, whatever magical properties NPA might possess (or not).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
Your sight is out of alignment. There is no denying this.
You haven't even defined "alignment". What aligns with what? There's not even enough information in your statement that I could disagree with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
Try using your zip tie trick on a nearby soaring eagle, I bet you will fail miserably. But you can use Point shooting techniques on a soaring eagle easily with your straight spotter.
You yet again seem to have missed an important bit: I don't use zip ties. I'm the guy with the red dot sight.

I've used my angled ED50A hand-held, on a rig with a reflex sight, to acquire and track Common Snipes in full display flight right overhead. I actually found this quite a bit easier than with straight 8 x 42 binoculars, which have a larger field of view than my ED50A, but no aiming device.

If you think soaring eagles are difficult without your magic technique ... well, maybe they were for you. I'm ROFLing here ...

Regards,

Henning
__________________
3D Printable Objects for Bird Watching: https://www.thingiverse.com/groups/bird-watching/things
Hauksen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 12:10   #98
Hermann
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,829
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalat View Post
Whatever hunters, astronomers, "sportsmen", etc. may prefer for their particular type of use, for birding the larger majority of birders perfer angled. All the reasons why angled is better (in most cases) for birding have been mentionned above.
There's only ONE situation where a straight scope is better than an angled scope - when you're watching from a car.

And that's it.

Hermann
Hermann is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 12:26   #99
temmie
Registered User
 
temmie's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,203
Maybe the guy with the light sweater should elevate his tripod a bit?

A straight scope can have certain advantages, but if those are mostly for hunting and not very applicable for birding, they are actually not in line with the philosophy of this forum.
temmie is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2009 2010 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 12:46   #100
Dd61999
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hauksen View Post
Hi,



You were talking about prolonged observing there. All of my statements apply, whatever magical properties NPA might possess (or not).



You haven't even defined "alignment". What aligns with what? There's not even enough information in your statement that I could disagree with it.



You yet again seem to have missed an important bit: I don't use zip ties. I'm the guy with the red dot sight.

I've used my angled ED50A hand-held, on a rig with a reflex sight, to acquire and track Common Snipes in full display flight right overhead. I actually found this quite a bit easier than with straight 8 x 42 binoculars, which have a larger field of view than my ED50A, but no aiming device.

If you think soaring eagles are difficult without your magic technique ... well, maybe they were for you. I'm ROFLing here ...

Regards,

Henning
Movement of your body and movement towards target are two separate things. You eliminate movement for each target for a natural aligned viewed without shaking. But you still move your body for each target and very quickly.

I defined alignment several posts back, regarding body, eye, optic, and target

Red dot faster then binoculars? Your seriously doing something wrong. Your muscle memory with your red dot is getting in the way of your natural pointing skills. Or you don’t have pointing skills at all. If red dots were that quick they would be adopted by clay bird shooting long ago. But they are not, and that says it all right there.
Dd61999 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which is best for digiscoping: angled or straight scope ? JGobeil Digiscoping cameras 26 Wednesday 30th December 2009 11:24
ED 50 angled or straight? lewesbirder Say Hello 4 Wednesday 15th April 2009 07:20
Kowa scope: straight or angled? wings Kowa 11 Friday 30th May 2008 16:29
angled or straight scope? johnmichael Spotting Scopes & tripod/heads 26 Tuesday 7th February 2006 19:50
Straight or Angled Eyepiece Scope for Birding? Milo Spotting Scopes & tripod/heads 36 Tuesday 24th August 2004 13:11

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.21407890 seconds with 38 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 02:12.