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Straight or angled scope

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Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 12:48   #101
Dd61999
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Originally Posted by Hermann View Post
There's only ONE situation where a straight scope is better than an angled scope - when you're watching from a car.

And that's it.

Hermann
And you forgot quicker target acquisition
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Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 13:43   #102
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Hi,

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Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
Red dot faster then binoculars? Your seriously doing something wrong.
Thanks, I'm pretty sure I don't need any tips from a guy who thinks it's a challenge to pick up a soaring eagle with an angled scope :-D

Maybe your magic shooting technique is actually a good thing for the few people who are really struggling with basic pointing tasks. It all depends on the frame of reference.

With regard to shooting, red dots sights have become a lot more common, often to the point of dominance, in many disciplines than they were 20 years ago, especially in disciplines where fast acquisition is required. If it's different in skeet shooting ... well, they might have their reasons for going against the trend. But remember that shooting topics are off limits here, so I'd appreciate it if you'd stay clear of these.

Regards,

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Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 13:50   #103
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Hi,

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Originally Posted by Dd61999 View Post
I defined alignment several posts back, regarding body, eye, optic, and target
So instead of clarifying the issue by repeating that definition so we can have a constructive discussion, you're making an entirely unhelpful and probably untrue claim in an obvious attempt to evade the issue.

All I can say is ... I'm not surprised.

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Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 13:57   #104
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And you forgot quicker target acquisition
No. Definitely not. Not with a zip tie sight.

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Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 13:59   #105
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Hi,



Thanks, I'm pretty sure I don't need any tips from a guy who thinks it's a challenge to pick up a soaring eagle with an angled scope :-D

Maybe your magic shooting technique is actually a good thing for the few people who are really struggling with basic pointing tasks. It all depends on the frame of reference.

With regard to shooting, red dots sights have become a lot more common, often to the point of dominance, in many disciplines than they were 20 years ago, especially in disciplines where fast acquisition is required. If it's different in skeet shooting ... well, they might have their reasons for going against the trend. But remember that shooting topics are off limits here, so I'd appreciate it if you'd stay clear of these.

Regards,

Henning

Red dot do dominate in shooting sports but not when it comes to birds or flying clays.many have tried over the years with much failure. Go to any shotgun or sporting clay forum and they will look down on red dot sights. Because you point not aim. That’s the fundamental rule when switching from rifles to sporting clays

While I am trying to respect forum rules, how else are birders going to understand NPA regarding their optics. Since it’s a skill set mostly taught in shooting sports

While I never said you can’t watch soaring birds with angled scopes. What I’m saying is that acquisition is much faster.

If you want to ignore skills that can help improve your observing, regardless of angled or straight that’s your prerogative. But you stressed the importance of a stable tripod, yet you don’t want to embrace learning the other half of the equation of stabilizing your body to the optimum level it can achieve for observing

Your loss not mine

Last edited by Dd61999 : Wednesday 10th April 2019 at 14:01.
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Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 17:18   #106
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Straight scopes for birding are pretty useless. Never seen anyone use one in the field during decades of birding.
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Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 18:07   #107
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Straight scopes for birding are pretty useless. Never seen anyone use one in the field during decades of birding.


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Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 19:13   #108
Dd61999
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No. Definitely not. Not with a zip tie sight.

Hermann
Only if your pointing skills are lacking
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Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 19:14   #109
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Originally Posted by Vespobuteo View Post
Straight scopes for birding are pretty useless. Never seen anyone use one in the field during decades of birding.
You probably live in Europe or you donít go to bird festivals much
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Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 22:05   #110
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I have both straight and angled scopes. I appreciate all the benefits of angled scopes for many situations, but for my own personal use, I much prefer straight. If I'm scanning with eyes and then taking quick scope views to check details, or if I'm using a scope to follow a bird (or more often these days, a moving turtle that is popping in and out of view from under water, which I'm also trying to photographically document), I especially appreciate a straight model because I don't have to take my eyes off the area/object of interest or the area in which it will likely reappear. I can keep both eyes open to keep track of the object or scan the relevant area, insert binoculars for quick magnified views, or insert the scope in my line of sight for max magnification, and when needed, quickly insert camera with viewfinder between eye and scope for digiscoping documentation. All this while maintaining line of sight.

--AP
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Old Thursday 11th April 2019, 05:38   #111
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Straight scopes for birding are pretty useless. Never seen anyone use one in the field during decades of birding.
I know one and heís a top birder / seawatcher. He has a straight Zeiss FL 85. Heís bot a very tall guy so that helps a bit.
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Old Thursday 11th April 2019, 07:44   #112
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Only if your pointing skills are lacking
I think you are the one here exhibiting a serious lack of skills. E.g a lack of ability to accept that your personal views may not be the only valid one.
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Old Thursday 11th April 2019, 07:49   #113
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I know one and he’s a top birder / seawatcher. He has a straight Zeiss FL 85. He’s bot a very tall guy so that helps a bit.
I see a few straight scopes from time to time. Usually both the scopes and the users are rather old. Perhaps straight was more popular 20 or 30 years ago? I have never seen a straight version of the newer scope models.

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Old Thursday 11th April 2019, 11:06   #114
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I think you are the one here exhibiting a serious lack of skills. E.g a lack of ability to accept that your personal views may not be the only valid one.

I have never denied that there arenít other valid views to angled, I admitted them several times in this thread
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Old Thursday 11th April 2019, 11:09   #115
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I see a few straight scopes from time to time. Usually both the scopes and the users are rather old. Perhaps straight was more popular 20 or 30 years ago? I have never seen a straight version of the newer scope models.
From what Iím told angled is way more popular in Europe. Several Manufacturers and birding books mention this. Supposedly our viewing habits are slightly different
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Old Thursday 11th April 2019, 11:11   #116
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If it works for you, great! Just giving a different perspective on straight scopes because they have benefits as well.

As an astronomer straight scopes can be used just like binoculars at the night sky
So you are hand holding your straight scope, or have it mounted on a very high tripod bending your neck back very far to look at the night sky using NPA ! And I am sure that is very comfortable. For quick looks at the night sky I use my Nikon 82 angled spotting scope on a very good portable tripod and binoculars. I have a straight Nikon 50ED but do not use it for that. Just to be clear I do have astro scopes.BTW I know about NPA.

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Old Thursday 11th April 2019, 12:21   #117
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So you are hand holding your straight scope, or have it mounted on a very high tripod bending your neck back very far to look at the night sky using NPA ! And I am sure that is very comfortable. For quick looks at the night sky I use my Nikon 82 angled spotting scope on a very good portable tripod and binoculars. I have a straight Nikon 50ED but do not use it for that. Just to be clear I do have astro scopes.BTW I know about NPA.
No I mentioned I lay flat for astronomy when looking at zenith

By the way, when your looking at zenith with angled spotting scope, you still need a tall tripod and it’s not comfortable to look at either.

As you probably know 45 degree angle spotting scopes are despised my many astronomers. They want 90 and less prisms

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Old Thursday 11th April 2019, 13:01   #118
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Funny stuff.
Angled for me. It just works for birding. Even better for astronomy.
Any scope is about adaptation. You adapt. Or not.
I dont get the argument.

Mark
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Old Thursday 11th April 2019, 17:09   #119
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No I mentioned I lay flat for astronomy when looking at zenith

By the way, when your looking at zenith with angled spotting scope, you still need a tall tripod and itís not comfortable to look at either.

As you probably know 45 degree angle spotting scopes are despised my many astronomers. They want 90 and less prisms
So I guess you use a small straight scope for laying flat looking at the night sky. I have used higher power binocular that way and it was nice. I could use my Nikon 50ED for that with lower power, but a pain to put out something to lay etc. etc. I do have 90 degree prisms for my Astro scopes. As far as your constant talk about NPA that is getting to be very Old!!

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Old Thursday 11th April 2019, 19:22   #120
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So I guess you use a small straight scope for laying flat looking at the night sky. I have used higher power binocular that way and it was nice. I could use my Nikon 50ED for that with lower power, but a pain to put out something to lay etc. etc. I do have 90 degree prisms for my Astro scopes. As far as your constant talk about NPA that is getting to be very Old!!
I mostly use binoculars for astronomy as well, more so then my Astro scopes. Matter of fact binoculars are my preferred tool of choice in most things.

Itís only constant talk about NPA because misinformed people want to continue criticizing it. Which I donít think is fair for people who might take it into consideration

With you being a binocular astronomer you are probably aware that gravity chairs are very popular when using them. Seems like people are using some of the skills of NPA without even knowing it
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Old Friday 12th April 2019, 12:06   #121
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Hi,

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Originally Posted by mooreorless View Post
As far as your constant talk about NPA that is getting to be very Old!!
Personally, I'd love to hear how you think the technique can be transferred to the observation of birds.

Unless NPA practitioners are sworn to secrecy on the technique, of course! ;-)

Regards,

Henning
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Old Saturday 13th April 2019, 21:39   #122
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I own both angled and straight scopes, to me it is very simple - both have their pro's and con's.

For target shooting a straight scope is all but useless - just too awkward to use without compromising ones position and consistency. Angled scopes are much better suited to this discipline.

Astronomy? Can't comment as I don't really do it!

For birding? I find that a straight scope is better suited to this discipline as it allows me quicker acquisition and more comfortable viewing. I also find angled scopes very awkward to use in hides. Angled scopes do allow the use of shorter tripods which can be an advantage. I do wonder why angled scopes are so popular amongst birders.

Not wishing to be contentious buy I simply do not understand why the majority of birders buy angled scopes.

Last edited by johnf3f : Sunday 14th April 2019 at 12:49. Reason: Badly worded
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Old Saturday 13th April 2019, 22:22   #123
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Angled scopes are ideal for group sharing when height differences aren't too great. They are very common in NA.
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Old Saturday 13th April 2019, 22:37   #124
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Hi John,

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Why would I want to bend down and try and sight my scope through a silly little piece of plastic (that possibly might be correctly aligned) rather than just look at my subject whilst standing/sitting comfortably? When it comes to viewing from hides I am simply baffled as to why people bring along angled scopes - still each to their own.
You don't actually have to bend down to use a cable tie sight, as it comes up to the same eye height you use for looking through the scope.

Here's an illustration from the thread I linked above:

https://www.birdforum.net/attachment...3&d=1192654429

I don't actually use a cable tie sight, but the procedure is the same with a reflex sight if you mount at the same height, as here:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3002868

The transition from sighting to observing requires only the slightest nod of your head, and rolling your eyeball a bit ... near instantaneous.

With regard to hides, here in Germany there seems to be no standard type, and depending on viewport design and seating arrangements (if any), either type of scope can be awkward to use in a hide that's just fine for the other type.

An advantage of angled scopes that hasn't been mentioned yet is that on many of them (not on the ED50A, though), it's possible to rotate them in their mounting collar around the optical axis of the objective, giving you additional flexibility in viewing height. That can come in handy in some hides. It also gives you a bit of extra azimuth angle when viewing through viewports.

Regards,

Henning
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Old Sunday 14th April 2019, 13:04   #125
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Hi John,



You don't actually have to bend down to use a cable tie sight, as it comes up to the same eye height you use for looking through the scope.

Here's an illustration from the thread I linked above:

https://www.birdforum.net/attachment...3&d=1192654429

I don't actually use a cable tie sight, but the procedure is the same with a reflex sight if you mount at the same height, as here:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3002868

The transition from sighting to observing requires only the slightest nod of your head, and rolling your eyeball a bit ... near instantaneous.

With regard to hides, here in Germany there seems to be no standard type, and depending on viewport design and seating arrangements (if any), either type of scope can be awkward to use in a hide that's just fine for the other type.

An advantage of angled scopes that hasn't been mentioned yet is that on many of them (not on the ED50A, though), it's possible to rotate them in their mounting collar around the optical axis of the objective, giving you additional flexibility in viewing height. That can come in handy in some hides. It also gives you a bit of extra azimuth angle when viewing through viewports.

Regards,

Henning
I have edited my previous post as it was very badly worded - I hope it makes more sense now.

The "sights" that I have tried were made for the scopes concerned and were slightly below the height of the eyepiece. I agree with your comment about azimuth, though I have not yet needed this so far, so hadn't thought of it.

I do have both types but my angled scope is very rarely used due to having to aim the scope at about 45 degrees from where my head is pointing and the faffing about that that involves.

Your experiences (and it seems many others) differ from mine, but I can get used scopes cheaper, aim them quicker and get more comfortable viewing so I am happy. If angled suits you better then that's fine I am just baffled as to why birders like them - I don't.
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