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Opticron 60 mm MM3! (1 Viewer)

Michael,
I bought several years ago a Kite SP80ED from DOFsalg. At the time, it probably delivered 95% of what the more expensive scopes that DOFsalg had in stock (I tested side by side in their back yard). The price was half of what the top contenders would cost. Therefore, the statement about lower price scopes, I cannot sign off on that.

Having said that, I bought an opticron mm3 50mm recently, to be my travel scope. The big one with its weight is just too much with weight limits on flights between 20 and 23 kg. As Frank says, the 60mm version might suit your needs better.

Niels
 
Frank:
Thank you for the details.

If you didn't have a larger scope, would you be happy with using the MM3 60 for viewing distant shorebirds as your primary scope? I am quite settled on the MM3 60 right now, but my biggest concern is that it wouldn't be good enough for what I intend to use it for.

I assume you're using the HDF 15-45x eyepiece because I saw it mounted on your MM3 60 in one of the pictures. What magnifications are the digiscoped videos made with? Do you have a video or picture with the max magnification so I can see the amount of CA at worst? The CA is very acceptable in the videos I have seen.

Niels and Frank: My concern about mid-priced larger scopes seems to be brought to shame. Thank you :)
 
Michael Kristensen said:
Frank:
Thank you for the details.

If you didn't have a larger scope, would you be happy with using the MM3 60 for viewing distant shorebirds as your primary scope? I am quite settled on the MM3 60 right now, but my biggest concern is that it wouldn't be good enough for what I intend to use it for.
Click to expand...

MK - An MM3 60 as my only scope? Hell yes I'd be happy. Add the SDL V2 zoom and off you go. Its beautifully light, very sharp and worthy out at 40X magnification.

I tried one today on a watch of the beach / ocean, and could of stood and used it all day. Its a great piece of kit.
 
Michael,

I certainly could be happy with the MM3 60 mm as my full time scope. Of course there are always going to be situations where you would want more magnification. There are times that even with my 25-75x82 scope that I want more magnification but the provided magnification with any given scope (minus occasionally the 50 mm) is usually sufficient for even distant waterfowl watching.

Truth be told I use most of my scopes at 30x or less 99% of the time. The pics and videos taken with the scopes are almost all at their lowest magnification settings. The MM3 50 mm pics are at 18x. The MM3 60 mm pics/video were taken between 15-20x. The 82 mm scope pics/video were all taken at either 21x or 30x.

I will dig through all of the Flickr pics and see if I can find one taken with the MM3 50 mm at its maximum magnification. I know I didn't take any at max mag with the 60 mm.

Edit: It would seem that I rarely, if ever, take pics at high mags with any of my scopes. That is mostly result of the fact that in digiscoping you get better quality with low magnification and then cropping the image (assuming they are high enough resolution to begin with). The best I could do is this pic of a frog in my pond. I took pics at the low end of the magnification range and then the high end just to compare my two scopes. The conditions were quite favorable at the time. Close distance, no obstructions and bright sunlight from what I remember. It isn't the best pic for judging CA though as there isn't much contrast in the colors. Hope it helps some.

https://flic.kr/p/oju1na
 
Ratal said:
MK - An MM3 60 as my only scope? Hell yes I'd be happy. Add the SDL V2 zoom and off you go. Its beautifully light, very sharp and worthy out at 40X magnification.

I tried one today on a watch of the beach / ocean, and could of stood and used it all day. Its a great piece of kit.
Click to expand...

Good to hear.

Sounds like you've only tried it this once, but not getting the SDLv2 zoom and instead getting the HDF 15-45x zoom was where I was gonna save money to make it fit my budget. Would this be a mistake? I think I've read several places on this forum that people didn't think the difference was large enough for the money. After all it is a difference of 90 GBP.

Frank, do you have an opinion on that?
 
FrankD said:
Michael,

I certainly could be happy with the MM3 60 mm as my full time scope. Of course there are always going to be situations where you would want more magnification. There are times that even with my 25-75x82 scope that I want more magnification but the provided magnification with any given scope (minus occasionally the 50 mm) is usually sufficient for even distant waterfowl watching.

Truth be told I use most of my scopes at 30x or less 99% of the time. The pics and videos taken with the scopes are almost all at their lowest magnification settings. The MM3 50 mm pics are at 18x. The MM3 60 mm pics/video were taken between 15-20x. The 82 mm scope pics/video were all taken at either 21x or 30x.

I will dig through all of the Flickr pics and see if I can find one taken with the MM3 50 mm at its maximum magnification. I know I didn't take any at max mag with the 60 mm.

Edit: It would seem that I rarely, if ever, take pics at high mags with any of my scopes. That is mostly result of the fact that in digiscoping you get better quality with low magnification and then cropping the image (assuming they are high enough resolution to begin with). The best I could do is this pic of a frog in my pond. I took pics at the low end of the magnification range and then the high end just to compare my two scopes. The conditions were quite favorable at the time. Close distance, no obstructions and bright sunlight from what I remember. It isn't the best pic for judging CA though as there isn't much contrast in the colors. Hope it helps some.

https://flic.kr/p/oju1na
Click to expand...

Of course there will always be times when you need more magnification. If the 45x is as usable as Ratal makes it sound like, I feel like that would be sufficient :)

Thank you for looking through the pictures. If you do at one point take a digiscoped photo with the MM3 60 at max or just above average magnification, please let me know. Who knows, I might even own my own MM3 60 at that point ;)
 
Last edited:
I actually prefer the HDF....at least on the 50 mm. When I zoomed the SDL V2 in to a higher magnification there was a period of time where the field stop either disappeared or became fuzzy. It didn't affect the optical performance per se but rather the experience overall. I like to be able to see the field stop at all zoom settings. The HDF provides this.
 
I have the HDF zoom on my 50 mm. I was just thinking aloud about going 'all in'. Sorry. Me and my 50mm are going to be best pals for a long, long time. Travel and hiking is what I do and this gem of a scope is a winner.
 
Actually I didnt notice any stance issues at all. Maybe this is tied in with how light of a scope it is overall.
 
Thanks FrankD. Sounds like it's well-balanced, then. A lot of 60-65mm-ish scopes are back-heavy, which can be annoying, as very few lighter weight heads have a way to adjust the forward-backward balance.
 
FrankD said:
Michael,

I certainly could be happy with the MM3 60 mm as my full time scope. Of course there are always going to be situations where you would want more magnification. There are times that even with my 25-75x82 scope that I want more magnification but the provided magnification with any given scope (minus occasionally the 50 mm) is usually sufficient for even distant waterfowl watching.

Truth be told I use most of my scopes at 30x or less 99% of the time. The pics and videos taken with the scopes are almost all at their lowest magnification settings. The MM3 50 mm pics are at 18x. The MM3 60 mm pics/video were taken between 15-20x. The 82 mm scope pics/video were all taken at either 21x or 30x.

https://flic.kr/p/oju1na
Click to expand...

I am interested that people would be happy with the MM3 60 ed as their full time scope. I am investigating the Hawke Endurance ED 20-60 x 85 and have read very little but good about it. I own Hawke Frontier 8x43 ed bins and am very happy with them.

I presume that the Hawke as well as having higher magnification will have much better light gathering powers which will help in low light. But then people always say it is not just about magnification but the quality of the optics and other factors affect the image so there are quite a few variables.

I know that there is nothing like looking through a scope yourself but I would be interested to hear from people who have used both how they would compare say looking at distant waders. The videos taken through MM3 60 ed posted on this site look very crisp and clear. Would anything optically about this scope mean you would prefer it over the bigger objective and higher magnification of the Hawke?
 
I would also presume additional light gathering ability in an 85 mm scope. However, the time you really need that is mainly within 1/2 hour of sunrise or sunset (or if you use the scope inside the forest). Only you can answer if that is enough of your viewing time that it becomes important for you.

Niels
 
Jonathan Avery said:
Would anything optically about this scope mean you would prefer it over the bigger objective and higher magnification of the Hawke?
Click to expand...

I would like to address this specific question within your paragraph. Lets ignore the specific brands/scopes being compared at the moment and just examine your question from a theoretical perspective.


Starting with the assumption (for Kimmo and Henry) that you obtain two "good" samples (in terms of quality control) of a 60 mm scope and an 85 mm scope. It is safe to assume that the 85 mm will be brighter and should, theoretically, offer a higher magnification range.

That is about all you can say for sure in the comparison.

It is entirely possible that the 60 mm scope may use higher quality glass and coatings and that the optical design of that particular 60 mm allows for a very well corrected image. The 85 mm, though still a good sample, may not offer quite as well corrected of an image or may possibly use coatings/glass that isn't quite as good as the 60 mm.

Is that the case here when comparing the Opticron to the Hawke? I cannot say. I only looked through the Hawke once last June and I hesitate to make any comments based on that single observation. I will try to compare the two in a couple of weeks when I attend a bird festival but that may be long after you decide to buy a scope.

Wish I could help more.
 
Frank, thank you for your interesting comments - these were the sort of areas I was trying to tease out. I won't be buying a scope in the next two weeks so I will await your feedback with interest - have to get the finance together so might be quite a bit longer but always useful to get all the research done so that when you are in a position to move you have narrowed down the options! Also very interesting to think about these optical comparisons!!
 
Ideas about MM3 60 Scope

Hello
I called Opticron trying to decide which of the travel scopes to buy. Weight is and issue when travelling overseas or when you have to carry the scope on your person when travelling on a trip. I live in North America and therefore called the North Carolina office. The young lady I spoke with informed me that the main difference between the to scopes is price point what your budget can afford. I also found out that the SDL v2 eye pieces are interchangeable, meaning I could buy the SDL v2 12-36x eye piece to use with the MM3 60mm scope body.

I could buy a larger objective lens body, and still use the SDL v2 15-45x eye piece with this scope, which is nice to know, but how is this going to make a difference. You will get a brighter image at any of the magnifications using lower range eye piece with a larger objective lens body. One should note, that is how Swarovski Optik is selling there TS style scopes using the same eye pieces but different objective lens diameters here is the web link:
http://www.swarovskioptik.com/nature/ats-sts-c210202/ats-80-p5006334

So in theory one could purchase the Opticron HR 80 GA ED scope with SDL v2 24-72x eyepiece, and use the SDL v2 15-45x on overcast or low light conditions and still have a very good viewing all be it at reduce magnification but with a greater field of view. Plus if you digiscope lower magnifications is better than higher magnifications for allowing more light to the camera sensor.

Just some ideas about how to use the MM3 scope to add versatility.
-Christopher :t:
 
Christopher,
I am sorry, but it seems that you have misunderstood something (or otherwise I have). There is only one SDL v2 eyepiece. This eyepiece results in different magnification when used on different length of scope body.

If you compare the 50mm to the 60mm MM3, the same eyepiece will give a look a little lighter but with stronger magnification when used on the 60mm vs the 50mm model.

Niels
 
You are correct

njlarsen said:
Christopher,
I am sorry, but it seems that you have misunderstood something (or otherwise I have). There is only one SDL v2 eyepiece. This eyepiece results in different magnification when used on different length of scope body.

If you compare the 50mm to the 60mm MM3, the same eyepiece will give a look a little lighter but with stronger magnification when used on the 60mm vs the 50mm model.

Niels
Click to expand...

Thank you Niels you are correct :t:, and buying this upgraded eyepiece is well worth the extra money considering I only have to purchase the scope body, and not another eye piece to obtain the higher magnification. I have confirmed this information with Opticron.
 
FrankD said:
I would like to address this specific question within your paragraph. Lets ignore the specific brands/scopes being compared at the moment and just examine your question from a theoretical perspective.


Starting with the assumption (for Kimmo and Henry) that you obtain two "good" samples (in terms of quality control) of a 60 mm scope and an 85 mm scope. It is safe to assume that the 85 mm will be brighter and should, theoretically, offer a higher magnification range.

That is about all you can say for sure in the comparison.

It is entirely possible that the 60 mm scope may use higher quality glass and coatings and that the optical design of that particular 60 mm allows for a very well corrected image. The 85 mm, though still a good sample, may not offer quite as well corrected of an image or may possibly use coatings/glass that isn't quite as good as the 60 mm.

Is that the case here when comparing the Opticron to the Hawke? I cannot say. I only looked through the Hawke once last June and I hesitate to make any comments based on that single observation. I will try to compare the two in a couple of weeks when I attend a bird festival but that may be long after you decide to buy a scope.

Wish I could help more.
Click to expand...

Hi Frank,

I wonder if you got the chance to compare the MM3 60 ED with the Hawke 85 ED? Also, being a little mischievous, I wonder if Opticron are going to bring out an MM3 70 ED?
 
Sorry for the delay in replying. Things have been busy on my end.

I did not get a chance to compare the two. The Hawke was not represented at the show that I was at.

As for Opticron bringing out a 70 mm, I cannot say. They are pretty tight-lipped about new products until shortly before they officially debut. I wouldn't be surprised though I would think it would depend on how well the 60 mm model has sold since its debut. I think a 70 mm might be slightly redundant and would hope for at least a 75 mm if they weren't going for something notably larger (in objective size) than the 60 mm model. Just my opinion.
 
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