james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
That's why these discussions become tail-wags-the-dog stuff....we get individual accounts that vary widely from the overall consensus, but gets repeated enough times that the outlier becomes the norm.
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Swarovski must have fixed the glare issues in the SV 8x32. (1 Viewer)
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PHA, sorry I was not clear enough . I was responding mainly to the comments on that Swarovski.
What I have experienced myself, have learnt from comments by friends who used the same models with me "side by side", and have gathered by reading (mainly in this forum) is as follows.
Flare. If a model has flare pretty much everyone will see it. By "pretty much" I meant those whose vision is not impaired beyond a certain point. But it may be seen in different ways, e.g. patterns, by different people.
Veiling glare. In models where it is strong enough pretty much everyone will see it. In certain other models some will and some will not see it. In some models those who do not wear glasses do not see it and those who wear glasses/some who wear glasses see it. It is possible that there are a few models in which no one sees veiling glare.
Regarding the cause/s of these in instruments or users I am afraid I do not know enough to comment at all.
What I have experienced myself, have learnt from comments by friends who used the same models with me "side by side", and have gathered by reading (mainly in this forum) is as follows.
Flare. If a model has flare pretty much everyone will see it. By "pretty much" I meant those whose vision is not impaired beyond a certain point. But it may be seen in different ways, e.g. patterns, by different people.
Veiling glare. In models where it is strong enough pretty much everyone will see it. In certain other models some will and some will not see it. In some models those who do not wear glasses do not see it and those who wear glasses/some who wear glasses see it. It is possible that there are a few models in which no one sees veiling glare.
Regarding the cause/s of these in instruments or users I am afraid I do not know enough to comment at all.
Hi adhoc,
I know this is the Swarovski forum. Sorry to not refer to a Swarovski binocular. But, as the veiling glare is the issue, I only wanted to put it clear.
To me, Flare and Veiling Glare as well, is more an objective than subjective matter. I don't see why some people can see them and other no. Perhaps more accurate would be to say some people can be affected more than others by this two defects in the design. If not an objective design feature, why some binoculars brand worked trying to control it...?
And it is important in those extreme cases, very common situations in the real life in the outdoors, where I use my binoculars almost daily.
I can assure you, in extreme and critical situation when I need to see as well as possible, a binocular with as close as perfect veiling glare control vs one with not, both alpha in all other quality features, would be a GEM!!!
I know this is the Swarovski forum. Sorry to not refer to a Swarovski binocular. But, as the veiling glare is the issue, I only wanted to put it clear.
To me, Flare and Veiling Glare as well, is more an objective than subjective matter. I don't see why some people can see them and other no. Perhaps more accurate would be to say some people can be affected more than others by this two defects in the design. If not an objective design feature, why some binoculars brand worked trying to control it...?
And it is important in those extreme cases, very common situations in the real life in the outdoors, where I use my binoculars almost daily.
I can assure you, in extreme and critical situation when I need to see as well as possible, a binocular with as close as perfect veiling glare control vs one with not, both alpha in all other quality features, would be a GEM!!!
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Don't you have an 8x56 SLC or 8x54 FL? If you do can you induce glare in either one? I had both of those and it was really hard to induce glare in either. They were much more glare resistant than a normal 8x42.
PHA, I did not mean you were going off topic! Actually in that I am an offender, maybe even been warned a couple times (not by the moderators though). I meant that what I wrote began as a response to comments on one model of one make.
Glare is very important to me! Here is what I wrote in my most recent review(?) of a new model (link):
Only then did I go on to sharpness, color rendering, CA, etc.
PS. What I say in that post about glare in that model is qualified in my next post.
Glare is very important to me! Here is what I wrote in my most recent review(?) of a new model (link):
Only then did I go on to sharpness, color rendering, CA, etc.
PS. What I say in that post about glare in that model is qualified in my next post.
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RobMorane
Well-known member
I think this thread is from a Galaxy far far away...
I mean...
It seems the veiling glare can only be seen by some people (it reminds me rolling ball), in some situations.
If it can only be noticed by some, clearly, looking toward the sun, not directly but at a very close angle, I do have one question:
What are people trying to see/achieve pointing their binos toward the sun???
How many people would find themselves in this type of situation or even try something like that? Seriously?
If they get "veiling glare", instead of complaining and waiting for the manufacturer to "fix" an issue they are the only one to "suffer" of, I have an easy fix:
Why don't they try to MOVE or try to watch something else instead, and not find themselves in this situation?
Just asking...
I mean...
It seems the veiling glare can only be seen by some people (it reminds me rolling ball), in some situations.
If it can only be noticed by some, clearly, looking toward the sun, not directly but at a very close angle, I do have one question:
What are people trying to see/achieve pointing their binos toward the sun???
How many people would find themselves in this type of situation or even try something like that? Seriously?
If they get "veiling glare", instead of complaining and waiting for the manufacturer to "fix" an issue they are the only one to "suffer" of, I have an easy fix:
Why don't they try to MOVE or try to watch something else instead, and not find themselves in this situation?
Just asking...
"What are people trying to see/achieve pointing their binos toward the sun???"
Sometimes you can't avoid it if you want to see something. I can remember many times when I had my Habicht 8x30 W's that I would HAVE to look towards the sun or at steep angles to see birds and I would get veiling glare that would totally make it impossible to see. I would grab another pair of binoculars and because they handled glare better it was no problem seeing the bird. Glare handling is important because the glare is always going to be there in a lot of situations and you can't avoid it or you miss the bird.
Sometimes you can't avoid it if you want to see something. I can remember many times when I had my Habicht 8x30 W's that I would HAVE to look towards the sun or at steep angles to see birds and I would get veiling glare that would totally make it impossible to see. I would grab another pair of binoculars and because they handled glare better it was no problem seeing the bird. Glare handling is important because the glare is always going to be there in a lot of situations and you can't avoid it or you miss the bird.
Hi Rob,
Agree with denco !! Very well explained. And, going further, subtle veiling glare, not extreme, but present, even in many TOP binoculars (or other sport optics) looking with certain light situations, degrades, also in a subtle or "unnoticed" way, the "sharpness" of the view.
I ask myself, why some of the, best ALPHA binocular models, some of years ago (like NIKON EDG..) and some of the last ones, have been on this, refining the design of the baffling to take care of this serious issue...?
I see this a somewhat forgotten or unattended design feature...
Best!
PHA
Agree with denco !! Very well explained. And, going further, subtle veiling glare, not extreme, but present, even in many TOP binoculars (or other sport optics) looking with certain light situations, degrades, also in a subtle or "unnoticed" way, the "sharpness" of the view.
I ask myself, why some of the, best ALPHA binocular models, some of years ago (like NIKON EDG..) and some of the last ones, have been on this, refining the design of the baffling to take care of this serious issue...?
I see this a somewhat forgotten or unattended design feature...
Best!
PHA
MandoBear
Well-known member
I find those situations are quite common. I frequently birdwatch at a flooded gravel pit which has a hide on its northern shore - facing south, across the water. In winter, and at morning and evening at other times of the year, the low sun (even when there's cloud cover) can rake across the water and throw lots of light all over the place. Some of my bins handle this rather better than others, but in these situations, veiling glare is anything but a remote or academic phenomenon. It's real, and can seriously hamper the identification of a bird.
Birds turn up in all sorts of locations and in all kinds of lighting conditions. If I spend a good wedge of cash on a pair of binoculars for birwatcing, I expect them to perform well in that application, under most, if not all, lighting situations.
A2GG
Beth
Some types of glare are too intrusive not to notice. I saw it in the Swaro SV 8x32 when I had a couple hours with one a couple years ago. This was a pre-field pro model. It was spikes or drops of light coming across the field of view diagonally. I wasn't looking or testing for it , but when it showed up I thought wow there's that glare problem people complain about with the SV. If it has been generally corrected in the Field Pro model then you have a practically flawless binocular IMO.
I've seen those types of glare "spikes" visible across the FOV in the old Jenoptem porro, a Minox 8x42 roof and Zeiss FL 8x32 (once).
I haven't yet seen it in my Leica. I only occasionally see the whitish crescent on bottom of the edge which desaturates that slice of the view, but doesn't seem to intrude in the center view.
I've seen those types of glare "spikes" visible across the FOV in the old Jenoptem porro, a Minox 8x42 roof and Zeiss FL 8x32 (once).
I haven't yet seen it in my Leica. I only occasionally see the whitish crescent on bottom of the edge which desaturates that slice of the view, but doesn't seem to intrude in the center view.
Hi Rob
I know what you mean and personally I don't follow birds that fly close to the direction of the sun, but I am not a birder trying to identify every bird. Perhaps your aren't either. But you can get glare/flare in other situations for example off the sea when light glancing off the swell comes straight at you. On the other hand I have never found this to be so bad that it made me curse my binos.
Lee
Hi,
I agree, in toto, what MandoBear wrote! I use my binocs very often, in the field, not only for birds. I work in Range Management in Patagonia and use my optics almost daily. At down and dusk with the sun near the horizon, this veiling glare thing is, or can be, very serious!
I make mine what MandoBear said: "If I spend a good wedge of cash on a pair of binoculars for birwatcing, I expect them to perform well in that application, under most, if not all, lighting situations." Period!
PHA
I agree, in toto, what MandoBear wrote! I use my binocs very often, in the field, not only for birds. I work in Range Management in Patagonia and use my optics almost daily. At down and dusk with the sun near the horizon, this veiling glare thing is, or can be, very serious!
I make mine what MandoBear said: "If I spend a good wedge of cash on a pair of binoculars for birwatcing, I expect them to perform well in that application, under most, if not all, lighting situations." Period!
PHA
Torview
Well-known member
I`v been away in Norfolk Birding this past week, taking both SV`s with me, so had plenty of opportunity to compare 42 and 32 in a variety of light conditions.
As someone who ended up selling my pre FP 8x32 because of appalling veiling glare particularly in overcast conditions, I am finding the FP much improved, thus far VG has not really revealed itself.
Personally I never had much issue with glare/flare in my first example, it was there in tricky conditions, but has been with every optic I`v owned at some time.
For me it was very much the VG issue, which could be so bad as to totally obscure any view full stop.
Obviously I have no idea what if anything has been changed in the FP, but as an owner and user of both, and someone who has two years experience behind a 42mm FP, I can say it feels as though something has changed, and definitely for the better, as GG says it is now close to a flawless binocular.
John.
As someone who ended up selling my pre FP 8x32 because of appalling veiling glare particularly in overcast conditions, I am finding the FP much improved, thus far VG has not really revealed itself.
Personally I never had much issue with glare/flare in my first example, it was there in tricky conditions, but has been with every optic I`v owned at some time.
For me it was very much the VG issue, which could be so bad as to totally obscure any view full stop.
Obviously I have no idea what if anything has been changed in the FP, but as an owner and user of both, and someone who has two years experience behind a 42mm FP, I can say it feels as though something has changed, and definitely for the better, as GG says it is now close to a flawless binocular.
John.
Having used the latest (SV FP) 8x32 for the last 10 days, I can say that glare has been a non-issue for me.
I've used these ranging from light rain to overcast to bright & sunny. Short to very long range, wooded to wide open mountains. Like any pair of binos, it's possible to have a little glare or reflection in extreme use. Same with camera lenses. It was never a problem for me, and never distracted my attention from the subject.
I cannot say the same about the "rolling ball" effect. To me, this is quite pronounced in the 8x32, and was occasionally distracting depending on distance, and panning speed. I became more accustomed to it, but it's there, and is the result of a design trade-off.
I spent a very long time trying to create some of the glare/reflection issues that have been discussed with these. I finally was able to induce a slight reflection. When precisely positioned, I could see a faint red reflection through the binoculars of a red hummingbird feeder that was about 20 degrees outside of the field of view. Moving forward, back, right, or left just one foot eliminated this. I was able to come back later and re-create this. Lighting was overcast with sunlight coming from the same direction as the hummingbird feeder. To be clear, I had to work to make this happen, and it was never an issue in real use.
The tension on the focus knob is slightly asymmetrical. It did improve noticeably over time, so give it a few days if you find this. The focus is smooth in both directions though, with zero slop- so I'm happy with it.
I find these binos to have wonderful color rendition and good brightness. Fantastic sharp detailed image. The size results in a great balance of performance and portability. I covered many miles per day with these, and they are a joy to carry compared to larger binos.
I have no idea if Swarovski has made any recent changes to these. I also don't know if another person would find fault with glare. For me (and my wife), it was simply not an issue at all. For my money, these are best in class binoculars. I would recommend them without hesitation.
I've used these ranging from light rain to overcast to bright & sunny. Short to very long range, wooded to wide open mountains. Like any pair of binos, it's possible to have a little glare or reflection in extreme use. Same with camera lenses. It was never a problem for me, and never distracted my attention from the subject.
I cannot say the same about the "rolling ball" effect. To me, this is quite pronounced in the 8x32, and was occasionally distracting depending on distance, and panning speed. I became more accustomed to it, but it's there, and is the result of a design trade-off.
I spent a very long time trying to create some of the glare/reflection issues that have been discussed with these. I finally was able to induce a slight reflection. When precisely positioned, I could see a faint red reflection through the binoculars of a red hummingbird feeder that was about 20 degrees outside of the field of view. Moving forward, back, right, or left just one foot eliminated this. I was able to come back later and re-create this. Lighting was overcast with sunlight coming from the same direction as the hummingbird feeder. To be clear, I had to work to make this happen, and it was never an issue in real use.
The tension on the focus knob is slightly asymmetrical. It did improve noticeably over time, so give it a few days if you find this. The focus is smooth in both directions though, with zero slop- so I'm happy with it.
I find these binos to have wonderful color rendition and good brightness. Fantastic sharp detailed image. The size results in a great balance of performance and portability. I covered many miles per day with these, and they are a joy to carry compared to larger binos.
I have no idea if Swarovski has made any recent changes to these. I also don't know if another person would find fault with glare. For me (and my wife), it was simply not an issue at all. For my money, these are best in class binoculars. I would recommend them without hesitation.
james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
One only has to follow Henry's instruction near the beginning of this thread to see if anything has changed with this bin.
If there is no glare in the newest SV 8x32 FP or it is extremely hard to reproduce as RainStar and Torview say in the above posts how are you going to take a picture of something that doesn't exist?
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Alexis Powell
Natural history enthusiast
Following Henry's instructions (as others have stated) you will be able to take a picture of the relevant view to assess amount of glare, no matter how much or little is there.
--AP
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