LabradorDuck
Well-known member
If they ever decide to lump all the large white-headed gull, I suggest the common name "Seagull," just to troll the pedants.
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Laridae (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Richard Klim
- Start date
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
But why "Seagull,", with a comma in the name? Why not just "Seagull", as-is? Most people would have trouble remembering to add the comma anyway.
The name of the type species of the genus is of course Larus marinus
LabradorDuck
Well-known member
But why "Seagull,", with a comma in the name? Why not just "Seagull", as-is? Most people would have trouble remembering to add the comma anyway.
The name of the type species of the genus is of course Larus marinus
Hmm... so perhaps "Sea Gull" would be the better choice. That way, both the common usage (seagull) and the common pedantic quip (there's no such thing as a seagull) could be rendered incorrect.
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Jonathan Livingstone Seagull
Please, not just simply "Seagull" for smithsonianus (unregardless where it ends up, species or subspecies) ...
It makes it both hard to talk and write of any distant, unidentfied, flocks or individuals of any certain, or uncertain, seagull alt. seagulls (a name already much to often used, mostly by people in general, far too vaguely).
If need of a Common name ... why not keep the "American Herring Gull"? It does tell us some of its tricky, taxonomic, origin. Or "Nearctic (Herring) Gull". Or something else? The main thing is that consensus rule. If so I can certainly live with either "Smithsonian -" or "Coues' Gull" ... no problem. It´s just a matter of preference.
Please, not just simply "Seagull" for smithsonianus (unregardless where it ends up, species or subspecies) ...
It makes it both hard to talk and write of any distant, unidentfied, flocks or individuals of any certain, or uncertain, seagull alt. seagulls (a name already much to often used, mostly by people in general, far too vaguely).
If need of a Common name ... why not keep the "American Herring Gull"? It does tell us some of its tricky, taxonomic, origin. Or "Nearctic (Herring) Gull". Or something else? The main thing is that consensus rule. If so I can certainly live with either "Smithsonian -" or "Coues' Gull" ... no problem. It´s just a matter of preference.
Richard Klim
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viator
Well-known member
IOC proposing to lump Red-billed Gull with Silver Gull
http://www.worldbirdnames.org/updates/proposed-splits/
http://www.worldbirdnames.org/updates/proposed-splits/
Richard Klim
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Red-billed Gull
www.worldbirdnames.org/updates/update-diary/
www.worldbirdnames.org/updates/species-updates/
IOC World Bird List v5.3 (Draft).
www.worldbirdnames.org/updates/update-diary/
www.worldbirdnames.org/updates/species-updates/
Peter Kovalik
Well-known member
‘White-headed’ gull complex
Sonsthagen, S.A., T. Chesser, J.-M. Pons, D.A. Bell, and C. Dove. Molecular phylogeny of the ‘white-headed’ gull complex: inferred from nuclear and mitochondrial genomes. Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution. Manuscript In Preparation.
Sonsthagen, S.A., T. Chesser, J.-M. Pons, D.A. Bell, and C. Dove. Molecular phylogeny of the ‘white-headed’ gull complex: inferred from nuclear and mitochondrial genomes. Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution. Manuscript In Preparation.
Richard Klim
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Common Gull
Adriaens & Gibbins 2016. Identification of the Larus canus complex. Dutch Birding 38(1).
Forthcoming...
Adriaens & Gibbins 2016. Identification of the Larus canus complex. Dutch Birding 38(1).
Re common names, surely it would be preferable in this case (in the interests of stability/continuity) to recognise Common Gull L [c] canus and Mew Gull L [c] brachyrhynchus - thereby preserving the well-established Old/New World vernacular names (cf Common/Black & Velvet/White-winged Scoters, Kentish/Snowy Plovers, Hen/Northern Harriers).
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Richard Klim
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Common Gull
An impressively detailed article. Includes 102 colour photos, 15 figures, 15 diagrams, 5 tables.
Adriaens & Gibbins 2016. Dutch Birding 38(1): 1–64.
An impressively detailed article. Includes 102 colour photos, 15 figures, 15 diagrams, 5 tables.
[Perhaps a little surprising that the proposed split isn't immediately adopted by Redactie Dutch Birding 2016 (Dutch Birding 38(2) – also received today).]
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l_raty
laurent raty
Historically, this would be all wrong, however.
Mew Gull is a name that was coined in the American literature to denote vagrant Larus canus from the East coast (which obviously could not be "common" from an American viewpoint), back in a time when Short-billed Gull was treated as specifically distinct (see e.g. the 3rd ed. of the AOU check-list). Then (about a century ago), the West Coast taxon was downgraded to the status of a subspecies of Mew Gull and, as a result, it "lost its name".
Re-splitting Larus brachyrhynchus under the name Mew Gull, would mean to go back to species limits that were formerly accepted, albeit with the vernacular name that, back then, applied to one of the component species now applying to the other one. This sounds like a receipt for creating confusion...
Richard Klim
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A good point, Laurent. Summarised here: darwiniana.org/zoo/AOUc.htm#Gulls.
PS. But presentation slightly misleading: 'Short-billed Gull Larus canus' in 4th ed (1931) actually refers to L c brachyrhynchus.
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Paul Clapham
Well-known member
From the practical point of view I don't think it would be confusing at all. From the American point of view, what's happening is that Mew Gull (s. lato) is being split into Mew Gull (Western North America) and Short-billed Gull (European vagrants to Eastern North America). From the vernacular name point of view it looks like an ordinary split, and the fact that it's the nominate subspecies being "split off" doesn't lead to much confusion.
Mysticete
Well-known member
from a US birder perspective, most everyone refers to the European vagrants when they appear (at least the larophiles most into identifying such things) as Common Gulls, while Mew gets reserved for the Western population. It seems easiest just to use those names for any split, although I don't expect AOU to make any positive ruling on this in the near future.
l_raty
laurent raty
You probably wouldn't have any confusion in today's data.
Confusion would be most likely to happen when today's birders will be confronted to the old literature, where Mew Gull (sensu stricto) is used consistently in a sense that excludes the Western North American taxon.
Confusion would be most likely to happen when today's birders will be confronted to the old literature, where Mew Gull (sensu stricto) is used consistently in a sense that excludes the Western North American taxon.
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Richard Klim
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...an illustration of how common names are often easily confused.
AOU has consistently restricted the name 'Short-billed Gull' to American brachyrhynchus (ie, as used by Adriaens & Gibbins).
[Btw, both Malling Olsen & Larsson 2003/2004 and Howell & Dunn 2007 use the names Common Gull Larus [c] canus and Mew Gull L [c] brachyrhynchus.]
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Mysticete
Well-known member
How often do birders delve into old literature? This seems a problem for researchers, who of course will be familiar enough with this issue to avoid the pitfalls
l_raty
laurent raty
Birders delve into old literature much more often today than 15 years ago (when most of it was still confined to libraries), I would say. Why would you decide to set up pitfalls...?
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
Aye, Biodiversity Heritage Library has made a huge difference to what's easily accessible. But I think Mysticete's point about them being aware of the pitfalls still applies, at least in most cases.
Mysticete
Well-known member
Well...I wouldn't be deciding anything...the AOU would, since I have no control whatsoever over common names.
But yes currently the folks who are most likely to delve into the literature are probably also the folks that no about the taxonomic changes. Its casual birders who are most likely to be confused (and they won't be the ones obsessing over Common Gulls in Newfoundland)
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