Gull Help, China (1 Viewer)

I took these gulls today at Qingdao, Shandong province.
1 2, same bird, a pale vegae, there are many similar individuals, much darker than the surrounding firster-winter mongolicus.
3, a 3cy mongolicus with nrearly all dark greater-coverts?
4, a very pale 3cy taimyrensis?
5 another 3cy taimyrensis?

same bird, the upperparts looks darker than surrounding mongolicus, may be a pale 4cy taimyrensis with advanced primary moult?

Thank you very much!

Hi Xuky,

FWIW, I agree with all your identifications and ages except for the first bird.

There are a few birds like this one around here at the moment and I am choosing (rightly or wrongly) to call most of them taimyrensis rather than vegae, even though they do not look much like the first-winter taimyrensis that arrived earlier in the winter! This is all down to the patterning of the hand.

I've attached three birds which I think are taimyrensis, taimyrensis, and vegae respectively. The vegae has the dark on the outer webs of P2-3 broken by a large pale area, leaving isolated dark arrowhead markings at the tips. All three of these birds have very similar-looking greater coverts!

I think the apparent 'window' on your bird is due to the wing being spread. That said, I'd be very interested to know what others think about your first bird as it would also help me along with identifying mine!

Steve

Hi steve & Xuky!

I also tend to agree with all the sp but only perhaps not with bird 1 & 2 as you mentioned Steve. The pale markings on the outer web on the inner primaries, the so called "lozenges" are something you´d not associate with a "LBBG" meaning 'taimyrensis', as the pale inner webs as well. However, it doesen´t always seem to be the case. Again I would like you to see this presumed 'taimyrensis' by Chris Gibbins from Facebook, three pic. There you will notice both the "lozenges" and pale inner webs. Furthermore, the scapular moult is rather advancd for an resonable early December bird one would think. Also evident in these 'taimyrensis' types from Japan by Peter. A - which you have seen if I remember correct:http://www.pbase.com/smiths_1/taimyr_gull
Regarding the greater coverts, all gulls vary, including these two, here´s a Vega for showing the greater coverts:http://www.gull-research.org/vega/vegae2cy/2cyfebr001.html
A tendency for 'taimyrensis' to show the dark base nearly all the way in, if you see what I mean. So the two first of your birds looks best for 'taimyrensis' while the third would be a Vega by instinct...which is the best I can do. Back to the subject ones then. On the water one can see some the second generation upper scapulars and to me the look rather fuzzy and darkish and on some of these there´s only a dark shaft streak without an anckor but there are also some paler scapulars at the top rear and maybe the difference is du to timing they when grown in?

JanJ

First bird (pic 1-2) I would call a 1st winter Taymirensis. Second bird (pic 3) it's for sure a 4cy bird and for me it's a Taimyr as well or a Vega ( too much head striation for a mongolian?). Third and fourth birds are again tsimyrensis, both 3cy. Last bird a 4cy Taimyr , probably with a retarded moult on one wing only (p10 still old)

Thank you very much for your reply!

I'm happy to accept the first one is a taymyrensis. It seems that I haven't seen any first-winter vagae at this time. and it does have a short PP.
Hi steve, I think some taymyrensis may have pale window too, which aslo accord with your description about vagae ? Like this one (11).

12 13 same bird with 3,
14 15 same bire with 5
so may be 3 is another very pale taymyrensis? although the head striation looks ok for a mongolicus
Hi balex, while 3 is a 4cy not a 3cy, the inner primaries looks no good for 4cy? Thank you.

Yes, nr3 is probably a 4cy by now, as taken recently and a possible 'taimyrensis' with an interesting wing pattern, black on all primaries.
In the right wing of the last bird it looks as if all primaries are renewed and perhaps some damage might explain what's happened to the other wing.

JanJ

xuky.summer said:

Hi steve, I think some taymyrensis may have pale window too, which aslo accord with your description about vagae ? Like this one (11).

Click to expand...

Hi Xuky,

Many of Peter's taimyrensis Jan links to show clear pale lozenges in the outer webs of the inner primaries, and so do many birds I see here. I still think the overall 'feel' of the outer webs is that they are predominantly dark, though, not pale.

I take the outer webs of these feathers being completely broken by a large pale rectangle to be indicative of some kind of 'Herring Gull'. I therefore have the attached (taken yesterday) identified as 'pale' Vega Gull.

Steve

Thank you!
Learn a lot!