best vintage bino for night time wildlife viewing (1 Viewer)

O

OPTIC_NUT

Well-known member

• Sep 1, 2015

• #21

I would go for my Swift 7x50 Skippers.
Some haze and fog-cutting to them, and a tripod adaptor
would leverage the sharp resolution for a stake-out.
That's my deer night setup. They eat our hostas in spring.

Your 8x40s aren't too bad, either..
Even the 7x35s. Putting either on a nice tripod
would get you a lot better effective brightness at night
....the steadier image accumulates in the retina....gives
you extra details.

Some of my binos have threads for an adaptor, but I
usually use a little plywood plank with a 1/4-20 "T-nut"
from the hardware store as a rest. Easy, stable, and quick
to use either way. If I didn't have a ~$40-50 video tripod,
I'd put the money into that, to stake out the hogs.
Then keep an eye out with the 7x35 extra-wides on the plank.

If you figure to be on the move,
armies used 6x30 for 'night glasses' for a many decades.
Old 6x30s, or even new multi-coated 6x30 Porros
would be excellent.

 

Last edited: Sep 1, 2015

Foss

Well-known member

• Sep 1, 2015

• #22

FrankD said:

Was just given a Zeiss 7x50B. Really impressive binocular optically. A little wider than average FOV at 390 feet. Huge sweet spot with only the mildest curvature towards the outer 10% (at most) of the image. Tack sharp and extremely relaxed image.

Click to expand...

My friend has a pair of those (marine version) and I have a problem with them. My jaw drops wide open every time I look through them! Wow!

 

O

OPTIC_NUT

Well-known member

• Sep 1, 2015

• #23

The long FL, wide exit pupil, and big eye relief make it easy
to get amazing performance out of most 7x50s.
Of course, there is undoubtedly extra Zeiss pizzaz in there too.
I'm guessing...excellent blackening in a 5-element eyepiece.
All midnight and razors ;-)

 

H

henry link

Well-known member

• Sep 1, 2015

• #24

waterman74 said:

Kinda curious what the Trilar 7X RLE 76.4 on the objective means, I assume it is some kind of coating

Click to expand...

Not sure about "Trilar", but "RLE 76.4" refers to the concept of "Relative Light Efficiency". That was an effort in the first decades of coated binoculars to vaguely quantify the improvement of coated binoculars over uncoated binoculars. Basically you square the exit pupil diameter and then add 50%, so a binocular with a 5mm exit pupil and fully coated with single layer AR coatings was said to have an RLE of 37.5. Using the same math a 7x50 has an RLE of 76.4.

I have some old Swift material from the 80s, which assigns an RLE of 76.4 to the cheaper single layer coated 7x50s in their catalogue and an RLE of 84.2 to the more expensive multi-coated models.

Henry

 

W

waterman74

Active member

• Sep 2, 2015

• #25

Thanks for the info. Googling the term "RLE of 84.2" I see that the Swift Seahawk has that in an old Swift ad.

Since I already have one of those, I'm wondering if buying a Skipper or Nighthawk (RLE 76.4) is a waste of money, of course it's not really a "waste" so to speak, but I want to move forward, not backward, at least for the time being as far as brightness and light transmission is concerned. Purely from a vintage bin fan standpoint, both of those models are super fine pieces though.

Here is where I stand now. I have Swift Grand Prix 8x30 on the way, and a Jason Statesman 7x35 on the way. Both of these were bid on before I really started looking hard at 7x50.

On the Hunt for...

Swift Nighthawk???
" Skipper???/ Admiral??
ZOMZ as mentioned above
Celestron Nova
ANY Sears Discoverer or Sears 7x50 EWA,(purely for nostalgia reasons, plus I think they are beautiful, don't expect them to perform that great at night)
Yukon Futurus

All of these in 7x50 for now.

My plan is to compare these (and any others I decide to buy) in dusk/streetlight type setting with the OLY I have on the way and my Bushnell H20 in 8x42 porro. The top 5 or so will go to the farm to look at deer/hogs in varying degrees of moonlight. I will update this as I move along with the process.

As far as the Zeiss 7x50B mentioned above, if I was looking to spend that kind of money on a used version, I would instead buy a new Fujinon FMT-SX 7x50 and not look back and still have money left over. One of those may be in my future anyway depending on how this comparison test works out.

Thanks for reading

 

Last edited: Sep 2, 2015

W

waterman74

Active member

• Sep 2, 2015

• #26

JRing,

Can you please comment on a ZOMZ BNU that has no number after the U?

Thanks

 

O

OPTIC_NUT

Well-known member

• Sep 2, 2015

• #27

The extra-wide Sears Discoverer had fairly floppy focuser arms.
I can often fix that, but couldn't on the Discoverers. It matters at night
because a less-than-sharp edge on one side or the other diffuses the dim light.
Similarly, faint stars can seem to not be there when a very sharp focus can't be had.
There were 3 different field widths for various Statesman models. I like the compromise
of the Statesman 7x50 420ft@1000 yds. Unlike wider variants, it has usable sharpness
for about 90 percent of the field. The focuser is not fully tight, but that still keeps
a decent focus in a 7x50.

 

B

Binastro

Well-known member

• Sep 2, 2015

• #28

.Hi waterman74,
the BNU without a number is simply the first version.
The BNU 2 is the second version.
I think that BNU probably means binocular.

 

B

Binastro

Well-known member

• Sep 2, 2015

• #29

waterman,
I would check on the Yukon binoculars regarding their coatings. I rather like their offerings, but the ones I've used do not have very good coatings.

Optic_nut,
Re: putting 7×35 binoculars on tripods for night viewing. I would probably disagree with that.
The slight movements of one's hands actually enhances faint images. For instance with faint comets and faint nebular objects it is essential to slightly move around to be able to see them at all. If you have a totally steady image you will probably not see the object.
With telescopes I used to tap the tube to see faint objects.

This may also apply to seeing birds at night in very dim conditions.

With the unaided eyes it is true that one can see fainter stars by concentrating on one position for several seconds, however, this does not seem to apply to extended objects. I'm not sure if birdwatchers use averted vision or not. This is a very powerful technique.

 

FrankD

Well-known member

• Sep 2, 2015

• #30

Waterman,

Actually, when I did a little research on the bay, it seemed like most of the units of similar vintage to the Zeiss I was given only sell for between $150-$300. More than your limit for sure but still a heck of alot less than I would have guessed.

On another note, since we are kicking around the idea of 7x50s in general and not necessarily just vintage 7x50s then I would suggest the Vixen Foresta 7x50. Amazing optical performance. I did a review of it a couple of years ago. It can be found here:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=223931&highlight=Vixen+Foresta+7x50

On a related note, back when I had my full vintage binocular collection I was always partial towards both the 7x35 and 7x50s. I had quite a few of them. The Sears Discoverer were one of my favorites. Just something about the overall image representation. I still have one of the 7x35s and one of 7x50s. From what I remember there was some variation from year to year not only in terms of field of view but in other areas as well. Here is a Flickr link to most of my models....


https://www.flickr.com/photos/73029961@N07/albums

 

W

waterman74

Active member

• Sep 2, 2015

• #31

Frank,

I have noticed the Vixen mentioned several times, but I have yet to research it, most likely out of my price range for the time being. When you said 7x50B and I looked at it, it seemed way too expensive, that was the reason for the comment about the Fujinon. So, if you are talking about the Jena, then those seem to be more reasonable, I may get one of the Zomz since , I believe they use the Zeiss lenses. I'm just waiting for the right ones, although the Jena may be in my future also. That is quite a collection of vintage binoculars. Can you give me some pros and cons of the different Japan makes as I'm looking at lots of the same brands. Namely Sears, Binolux, Jason, Swift, Tasco? Could you also rate them High to Low brand wise... I would assume that the Swift brand would be on top, but maybe not?

Thanks for the comment Binastro on the Yukon's' I also read a review on them, that said they may not be that great in lowlight, so scratch those for now. I also read where some say they are BAK4 and some say they are BAK7 prisms.

Thanks....onward and upwards

 

J

John Dracon

John Dracon

• Sep 2, 2015

• #32

A good alternative for the 7x50 would be the 7x42, any make.

 

FrankD

Well-known member

• Sep 2, 2015

• #33

waterman,

The way I would approach it is to look for "sleepers". In other words, high performance models that not everyone knows about or just plain overlooks. I felt the Discoverers were that way. You could find them anywhere from $15-$60 on the bay a couple of years ago. Keep in mind that several of the vintage models I purchased needed a thorough cleaning before really approaching their true performance level. During that time I taught myself to disassemble,clean, reassemble and collimate many of the designs.

So, if you are just considering what I call "sleepers" then i would rate the Sears Discoverers high on that list. The Jason Sportscaster was close to the Discoverers. The Nikon 7x35 "Action" WFs would probably be my pick but they are many decades more recent than the Discoverers and similar models. You can find them for between $35-$60 on the bay.

The Swift models I owned were solid but I didn't warm up to them for one reason or another as much as some others from what I remember. Keep in mind though that the Swifts aren't what I would call sleepers. Everyone knows of the vintage Swift models so the price is usually much higher. Same things goes for the Bushnell Rangemasters and Customs. Great glass but you pay quite a bit for them in comparison to the others.

 

W

waterman74

Active member

• Sep 2, 2015

• #34

I have a Nikon here at work that I'm not too impressed with... Really considering the Zeiss Jena's, Think I can get a good one shipped here for under $150...from what I can tell it is not a fake, and is multi coated... what is the difference if any between the Jenoptem and Bincotem??? Oh, and I may need to pick your brain as far as cleaning some of the older Japan models...hehe

 

B

Binastro

Well-known member

• Sep 2, 2015

• #35

. One Vixen Foresta 7×50 is much cheaper than 10 random vintage 7×50s. The random vintage binoculars will probably require work also, whereas the new 7 x 50 is guaranteed.

That is if once thinks logically and not emotionally.

Thinking logically is not really something one sees so much of here.

 

O

OPTIC_NUT

Well-known member

• Sep 2, 2015

• #36

Ummm...the 7x50 Foresta is $329. Or thereabouts.

I don't believe high-grade binoculars solve

"
Re: putting 7×35 binoculars on tripods for night viewing. I would probably disagree with that.
The slight movements of one's hands actually enhances faint images. For instance with faint comets and faint nebular objects it is essential to slightly move around to be able to see them at all.
"

With tripod works vastly better for me with deer.
I can't notice the subtle brown-on-brown and the edges anywhere near as well
handheld. And with stars too, by leaps and bounds. To wit: seeing more of them in a field.
That's my experience.

Nebular things may be different.
Pigs and deer have edges, though.

 

E

edwincjones

Well-known member

• Sep 2, 2015

• #37

my zeiss dialyt 8x56 works well at night
while mine is not not vintage
some of them, and the design is

edj

 

W

waterman74

Active member

• Sep 3, 2015

• #38

Well, I have gone and done it now... the better half is going to kill me. I bought an older Fujinon Meibo 7x50, rubber looks good, but might need eye cups, and for the kicker, I bought a CZ Jena 7x50W Jenoptem, Multi Coated DDR 7 digit ser#... US seller says bought in East Berlin 1982 and claimed never used, looks like it just came out of the box, from the pics.... The only thing that worries me is that this seller has no feedback...uh oh. Should be protected by the bay though. Anyway, both bins to the door for $270.00. I'm going to have some comparing to do!!!! That puts all other purchases on hold for now, until I can sort what comes in and resell some most likely.

 

O

OPTIC_NUT

Well-known member

• Sep 3, 2015

• #39

Hah....you're bit hard by the fever.

Those are awesome models.
Looks like there are some Jenoptem deals....one
good side-effect of the 50mm size.

First thing to check: hold each barrel up to a light
eyepiece-first and look into the objective.
You can see whether the insides are clean.
Little black specs are no problem...it's diffusing
dust or mold that reduce contrast.

 

J

jring

Well-known member

• Sep 3, 2015

• #40

Hi,

Congratulations on the CZJ and Fujinon - both of them should be quite good and at least comparable to the ZOMZ I recommended, albeit a bit more expensive. I was able to compare my ZOMZ to one single example of Binoctem MC and I liked the ZOMZ a bit better, but I may have been biased - they were very close with the binoctem being a tad brighter and the ZOMZ having a wider sweet spot.
Btw. that ZOMZ or other soviet makers used CZJ glass is just an urban legend. They had no need to - they just took the whole factory plus key personal after WW2.

The difference between Binoctem and Jenoptem is just marketing - Jenoptem was introduced as a catch-all name for lower priced bins of all sizes (binoctem, dekarem, deltrintem, etc.) which were also still produced while in fact they were basically the same - maybe the named ones got a bit more finishing and/or selection. But you can get very good samples of Jenoptems too.

Btw. the Zeiss 7x50B mentioned above is a VERY collectible one made bei Zeiss West. No connection to CZJ at all. Due to the german division there was two Carl Zeiss companies after WW2 and both built binoculars. The West ones were usually a lot more expensive, thus sold in lower numbers and fetch higher prices today. As for quality they are mostly very good too.

Zeiss West is what now is known as Zeiss, the Sports Optics part of CZJ nowadays trades as Docter Optics.

Joachim