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Taking the plunge - Superzoom to DSLR (1 Viewer)

paul goode said:
Hi Graham,

I've pulled one line out of your original post:

'who lives in dark and dismal (at least during the winter months) Sweden.'

Unless you want a summer only hobby I think that a body that can handle high ISO noise is essential and, quite simply, thats the Canon. Matching that with a lens with a USM/HSM motor should give you the best chance of keeping shooting throught the winter. Lens choice is personal but go for the fast AF provided by those motors.

I totally agree with this, the high ISO performance of the Canons is simply amazing. In you situation I'd go for the Canon with either the 100-400IS or the 400 f5.6... hard to know which one - from what I've seen the prime handles a tc better (good if you ever wanted a bit more reach) and has slightly faster AF. However the zoom is a bit more versatile, has better close focus and has IS... As you are used to using a camera with a zoom lens, you might find the prime a bit limiting.

Here's a link to an ISO1600 shot taken with a Canon 350D (sorry I know I've linked it before...) http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/77940
 
Graham,

People who use Canons value its high-ISO performance and people who use in-camera-IS appreciate its usefulness.

Here is why I would choose the Pentax K10D - though I live in even darker Finland. I haven't taken the plunge yet, but am considering it seriously.

Pentax K10D Pros:
+ sensor-IS (+ dust removal)
+ weather-sealed body (like MUCH more expensive Nikon D200, Canon 1D)
+ excellent viewfinder (for a DSLR) makes manual focusing usable
+ HSM-focus support (lenses available in March 07)
+ huge, compatible lens selection since 70's (eg. legendary "Limited" primes compare well with Leicas & Zeisses). Some ultra-cheap, second-hand MF tele-lenses.
+ nice innovations & implementations (Sensitivity-priority exposure, RAW-button, DNG-RAW...)

Cons:
- higher & sometimes "patterned" high-ISO noise (800-1600) compared to C
- "only" 3fps serial shooting
- slower AF than C & N *at the moment* (should improve soon)
- limited *new* lens selection *at the moment*
- poor battery indicator


Sony is very good too, but IMHO it has discounted the "savings" of body-IS by pricing their best lenses too high.

I like the out-of-camera image quality of the Canons very much, but the viewfinder and mechanical durability of the 400D are not nearly at the same level as eg the 30D (or K10D). The 400D also does not have spot metering, which is sometimes very useful in bird photography. Also remember that not all Canon's motorized lenses are any faster than camera driven lenses of other brands.

We are lucky to have many good options! :t:

Best regards,

Ilkka
 
Macswede said:
I imagine the light situation in Arizona is different from that in Sweden but do you have any examples of pictures taken ewith a handheld camera?
Graham
Hello Graham,
I'm glad to see that you are receiving a great deal of helpful and experienced advice: it seems the range of choices is narrower now; if you need, just search through the gallery for pics taken with these lenses, you'll find lots of excellent examples ...
just for a matter of comparison, have a look at these examples here and here - both shots were taken with the prime AND a TC handheld in difficult low light situation at ISO 400 - not the best of shots, but decent enough in my opinion.
Cheers,
Max
 
I wouldn't mind seeing a few bird images taken with old manual focus lenses on DSLR's. I don't mean professional images just those taken by amateurs.
I'm curious because I've tried using MF and haven't taken a single decent image.
I know my eyesight isn't great but I totally rely on AF for bird photography.
Still mess around sometimes with my old OM1 and can manually focus fine for 'normal' photography, but bird photography, I'm a non-starter!

Paul
 
paul goode said:
I wouldn't mind seeing a few bird images taken with old manual focus lenses on DSLR's. I don't mean professional images just those taken by amateurs.
I'm curious because I've tried using MF and haven't taken a single decent image.
I know my eyesight isn't great but I totally rely on AF for bird photography.
Still mess around sometimes with my old OM1 and can manually focus fine for 'normal' photography, but bird photography, I'm a non-starter!

Paul

Hello Paul,
I've used MF just a few times, only when really necessary; this one was taken with MF at close range, because MFD would not allow me to use AF
Cheers,
Max
 
postcardcv said:
In you situation I'd go for the Canon with either the 100-400IS or the 400 f5.6... hard to know which one - from what I've seen the prime handles a tc better (good if you ever wanted a bit more reach) and has slightly faster AF. However the zoom is a bit more versatile, has better close focus and has IS.

One of the best Finnish nature photographers Vesa Huttunen http://www.birds.fi/ says the 100-400IS is perhaps his most used lens due to its utmost versatility (and he probably has all the lenses Canon has ever produced ;)).

Ilkka
 
paul goode said:
I wouldn't mind seeing a few bird images taken with old manual focus lenses on DSLR's. I don't mean professional images just those taken by amateurs.
There are many situations, when affordable zooms that amateurs tend to use are struggling with their "autofocus". In these cases they often switch to MF and just shoot away hoping that some pics were acceptable. If you can get a fast(er) MF prime at the same price as a new AF monster-zoom, it may not be a bad choice.

Ilkka
 
gmax said:
Hello Paul,
I've used MF just a few times, only when really necessary; this one was taken with MF at close range, because MFD would not allow me to use AF
Cheers,
Max

Thats a great shot Max. And I never knew that you could manually focus below the minimum focussing distance. Pity I'm as blind as a bat in my left eye, and if I try to look through the viewfinder with my right eye I can't see a thing!

Paul
 
iporali said:
One of the best Finnish nature photographers Vesa Huttunen http://www.birds.fi/ says the 100-400IS is perhaps his most used lens due to its utmost versatility (and he probably has all the lenses Canon has ever produced ;)).

Ilkka

There are some tremendous images on this web site. The Snow Bunting on the home page is bl##dy marvellous!

Paul
 
Macswede

dont equal sensor IS whit a floting glass elements IS at long zoom ... i was make the same stupid asumption when i buy konica minolta 5D (sony alfa is an exact copy except for the sensor ... almost twice more pixels and much noisier). pentax senzor stabilisation is even worst then the minolta/sony system.
dont get me wrong the system is great and it works very well in low light condition and at short focal length.
and if you want to shot flying birds you better take in consideration autofocus speed to ... canon L is winner to this section. 100-400 lens is reaching from the short to the long zoom in half a time of the tamron 200-500.

i think that best choise is canon eos400 (30d autofocus system) and canon 100-400mm/f4.5-5.6
try to buy lens at second hand

p.s sorry for my english
 
paul goode said:
Hi Graham,

I've pulled one line out of your original post:

'who lives in dark and dismal (at least during the winter months) Sweden.'

Unless you want a summer only hobby I think that a body that can handle high ISO noise is essential and, quite simply, thats the Canon. Matching that with a lens with a USM/HSM motor should give you the best chance of keeping shooting throught the winter. Lens choice is personal but go for the fast AF provided by those motors.

I don't know if you can get the magazine but the March 2007 issue of Photography Monthly has a large group test of DSLR's, in which the Canon comes out top, and lots of advice for first time DSLR users.

My other thought is to do with residual values. Canon kit holds its value, especially the 'L' lenses. Haven't got a clue on the Tamron but secondhand Sigma lenses are cheap. Buy one new and you'll lose loads of money when you upgrade. If you do want a Sigma I'd look out for one secondhand. I did with my 500mm f4.5 and got a bargain but buying one new would leave a bad taste if you saw what it was worth a year later. And that is the voice of experience from buying and selling a 50-500.

All the best

Paul


I would tend to agree with the re-sale values, (despite buying the Sigma) but that is true for most third party lenses and even "basic" branded lenses dont fetch very much, that is also true of any new product to a certain degree, its all down to supply and demand. But unless your more Gear Freak than Photographer there should be no need to be selling lenses if you are happy with your original choice.
Will I sell my Sigma when they get around to releasing a sonic motor version for the Pentax K10? I think not, I bought it for what it was and I aim to get my moneys worth, even if the new model does focus slightly quicker (whoop de do)
Strangely enough the Pentax fit Sigma 50-500 fetches some ridiculous prices on ebay (I know because thats the first place I looked for mine) it all comes back round to to supply and demand.
 
paul goode said:
Thats a great shot Max. And I never knew that you could manually focus below the minimum focussing distance. Pity I'm as blind as a bat in my left eye, and if I try to look through the viewfinder with my right eye I can't see a thing!

Paul
Well, that was a strange and useful surprise for me as well, I don't know yet if it's up to a disfunction of MY lens or it's possible with any other similar lens .. don't get me wrong, MF helped in reducing the MFD, but not in eliminating it: the prime's MFD is said to be at 3.5m, that shot was taken at ca. 2.8-3.0m, not much closer, but enough... :t:
Cheers,
Max
 
"dont equal sensor IS whit a floting glass elements IS at long zoom ... i was make the same stupid asumption when i buy konica minolta 5D (sony alfa is an exact copy except for the sensor ... almost twice more pixels and much noisier). pentax senzor stabilisation is even worst then the minolta/sony system.
dont get me wrong the system is great and it works very well in low light condition and at short focal length."

That is rather strange, my K10D Shake Reduction works perfectly with the Sigma at 500mm, the attached pic was shot at 1/90sec at f6.7 HANDHELD and I have arthritis and have difficulty holding the camera with this lens on, someone with steadier hands could have got a much better shot.
 

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IanF said:
If you're after more of an all round lens that is very good quality then the Canon 100-400mm IS f4,5-f5,6 is very good indeed. I find it's very good for macro as well as for bird photos. The IS is a real boon.

I'm definitely leaning towards the Canon 100-400mm. I would like IS and flexibility and your macro tip is very interesting to me as I like to take dragonfly shots when I get the chance. And I'm going to buy a monopod.
Graham
 
impotentspider said:
lus you have the ability to use almost every Pentax K mount lens ever made, there are some suberb KA mount optics that will function fully with the K10 (if you dont mind focusing manually) and most can be had for peanuts compared to the cost of new lenses. Though sadly a 600mm Pentax KA will still cost you more than £1500+ second hand........
There are even some very reasonably priced 300mm AF zooms available.

I'm afraid this sort of thing would demand more competence than I possess but I take your point. Everything I've read about the 10D suggests that it's a very good camera.
Graham
 
paul goode said:
Unless you want a summer only hobby I think that a body that can handle high ISO noise is essential and, quite simply, thats the Canon. Matching that with a lens with a USM/HSM motor should give you the best chance of keeping shooting throught the winter. Lens choice is personal but go for the fast AF provided by those motors.
My other thought is to do with residual values. Canon kit holds its value, especially the 'L' lenses.

I don't want a summer only hobby and I'm thinking along the same lines, Paul. Your point about residual values is one I had missed and it's a good one.
Graham
 
postcardcv said:
I totally agree with this, the high ISO performance of the Canons is simply amazing. In you situation I'd go for the Canon with either the 100-400IS or the 400 f5.6... hard to know which one - from what I've seen the prime handles a tc better (good if you ever wanted a bit more reach) and has slightly faster AF. However the zoom is a bit more versatile, has better close focus and has IS... As you are used to using a camera with a zoom lens, you might find the prime a bit limiting.

Here's a link to an ISO1600 shot taken with a Canon 350D (sorry I know I've linked it before...) http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/77940

What an amazing shot! I can't imagining managing anything approaching that. I think I'd prefer the zoom for the reasons you mention despite the fact that it's less good with a TC.
Graham
 
iporali said:
Here is why I would choose the Pentax K10D - though I live in even darker Finland. I haven't taken the plunge yet, but am considering it seriously.

If I knew a lot more about cameras and which lenses to go after I'd be more inclined to buy the Pentax. You certainly make a good case for it. As it is the Canon's looking more and more attractive, Ilkka.
Graham
 
gmax said:
I'm glad to see that you are receiving a great deal of helpful and experienced advice:

To be honest I'm overwhelmed - but in a nice way, Max. It's really great to get so much great input and I'm beginning to get a clearer idea of what I want.
Graham
 
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