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Attracting Birds by Technology-Pros and Cons? (1 Viewer)

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xmeecosmic

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A couple of months ago I went birding for the first time with an experienced guide. She seemed to be ethical in all areas and frequently referred back to the ABA guidelines.

However, many times in my three days of birding with her, she used an iPod with recorded bird songs to attract certain target birds, particularly while we were in the fringes of forested areas.

She explained that some birders were opposed to using such technology.
My major objection to technology like that is that it seems to take away from one of the aspects of birding that I enjoy so much- the unpredictable predictability of it all. I am sure that of the 144 species of birds that we saw some may have been missed if the ipod was not utilized but...

I would never purchase an ipod with songs but I would like to know how others feel about it.
What are your feelings about using such devices to attract birds?
 
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Ask yourself this, would you have paid as much for the guide if you had got nowhere near the 144 species? If your answer is yes then you are a great guy and a pleasure to do business with, however there are a lot of people out there who would have answered no.
The guide has to make a living, if using judicious tape luring ( ok it was an i-pod but tape was first) ensures that their clients get a good species list and therefore recommend them to others, then I am in favour of the guide. After all - you said she didn't use the lure for every bird so that is a big point in her favour.
If the unpredictability factor is one of the aspects of birding you enjoy...can I ask why you employed a guide? Surely the highest level of unpredictability is when you are on your own in unfamiliar territory?
 
Agreed. Your contracting the guide was employment of the Ultimate Technology...Human Knowledge. I don´t use iPods or tape-lures. But I bought a little wooden and metal squeaky thing some months back that I like to think attracts birds. It´s crude, and probably not terribly effective, but it´s cute. It´s also technology. Like the opening scene of "2001- A Space Odyssey" (Bone Tools to Space Exploration), it´s not much of a leap from pishing, or squeaky bird-callers, to an iPod. Birding in most of the planet would be impossible without our rainproof gear, our optics, our vibram-soled boots. Technology. We´re Humans. It´s what we do.;)
 
sless13 said:
A couple of months ago I went birding for the first time with an experienced guide. She seemed to be ethical in all areas and frequently referred back to the ABA guidelines.

However, many times in my three days of birding with her, she used an iPod with recorded bird songs to attract certain target birds, particularly while we were in the fringes of forested areas.

She explained that some birders were opposed to using such technology.
My major objection to technology like that is that it seems to take away from one of the aspects of birding that I enjoy so much- the unpredictable predictability of it all. I am sure that of the 144 species of birds that we saw some may have been missed if the ipod was not utilized but...

I would never purchase an ipod with songs but I would like to know how others feel about it.
What are your feelings about using such devices to attract birds?
Click to expand...

To me, it sounds like the issue here is the use of playback. Whether one uses Ipods, whistled imitations, cds, or good old fashioned cassette tapes to attract birds, all of these methods can help one see more species. BUT, considering that many birds probably get stressed, agitated, and use valuable energy to defend their territories against imaginary intruders, I think one should be very cautious about using playback. I am not against it, but believe that one should just use common sense-like not using playback on endangered species, refraining from using it in heavily birded areas (because a lot of playback might already be occurring), and "not overdoing it" if one decides to use playback. I realize that guides need to make a living (I make part of my living by guiding in Costa Rica) but if a guide is willing to stress birds out for clients then maybe the clients should think twice about hiring such a guide.
There's been talk lately among the guiding community in Costa Rica about playback with a general agreement on no longer utilizing this methodology (at least in heavily birded areas). The main reasoning for this is because most of us have seen overuse of playback used by guides (including non-birding guides who simply want to show their clients something) at frequently visited sites. That said, I have state that I am not entirely against using playback, just being careful about where and how it is used.
 
Thanks Patrick for your balanced and well-thought-out answer that addressed some important ethical issues.
Apparently the first two respondees had no such concerns.
 
Not wanting to get into a flame war here but my point was that the guide has to make a living and used tape luring for certain target birds (your words not mine), she wasn't luring every bird.
I happen to dislike the use of tapes but can appreciate that when your livelihood depends on giving visiting birders a big day list then the temptation is very great to use them.
Sure I'm concerned about the welfare of the birds, but I'm also concerned that you were giving the guide grief for something that isn't actually illegal.
It may have been better if you had asked her not to use the lure.
 
sless13 said:
Thanks Patrick for your balanced and well-thought-out answer that addressed some important ethical issues.
Apparently the first two respondees had no such concerns.
Click to expand...
Didn´t mean any offence, Sless13. Obviously whether or not we use technology, disturbing the birds is wrong. And in the case of nesting/breeding birds, illegal. I suppose what I mean is, it´s not the technology, it´s what you do with it that´s important.
 
sless13 said:
Thanks Patrick for your balanced and well-thought-out answer that addressed some important ethical issues.
Apparently the first two respondees had no such concerns.
Click to expand...

The 'first two respondees' took the time to respond to your initial post and raised valid questions relating to your use of a guide, which i see you have ignored and failed to answer in your dismissive post. I presume you made your feelings known to the guide at the time and didn't object to not seeing your 'target species'.

For the record, i don't object to a lure when used reasonably and sensibly, taking into consideration points already made.
 
Put yourself in the bird's position:
Would you want someone interrupting your 'mating'?
If you are just hanging out looking for food, and someone keeps sending a recording of "Hey sugar, come over here and see what I've got" would it bother you?
And if you heard it for the thousandth time, and it was REALLY your sugar, would you know to go see what he/she has got?
I vote remembering the 'prime directive'.
 
I think bird song is probably a bit more aggressive than: "Hey sugar, come over here and see what I've got". More like "I own this tree now - if you've got a problem with that then let's fight". Clearly it's going to cause a male bird some stress.

But then just seeing a human is a seriously stressful event for most birds as well. We are the ultimate predator, and they know it. We exterminate entire genomes, destroy 100% of habitat, cause unimaginable destruction.

Really, if you want to stop stressing birds, then stop birding. In fact, stop everything.
 
Sure we do damage, but I can't go with that extremism, in fact a lot of hawks follow me and my dog in the woods when I walk. Osprey watch what I'm catching when I fish. etc.
It's more an issue of crying wolf. Desensitizing them with their own call may be the worst possible thing to do, depending on the season.
Ironically, I'm all for whistled imitation, because it takes skill. You have to work at it, and working at it brings you into the environment as an investment in time. I can't support playback though.
 
Sure, I´m sure it can be negative to the birds in several aspects. However it can be crucial to keep tourists coming to the forest and if they stopped playing and the number of tourists would drop, the forest would probably be used for other purposes and perhaps destroyed. Now that would be a big problem for the birds.
 
johnraven said:
I think bird song is probably a bit more aggressive than: "Hey sugar, come over here and see what I've got". More like "I own this tree now - if you've got a problem with that then let's fight". Clearly it's going to cause a male bird some stress.
Click to expand...

I know you mention bird song, but what about a bird's call? This time of year most birds are not territorial (you get exceptions, like the (European) Robin), so what happens if you play a call of a species that appear in flocks this time of year? Any possible negative effects there, such as taking a flock of birds from a potential source of food?
 
As a guide a used my iPod quite a bit to attract species. However, there were definitely also times when I told clients I either wasn't going to use play-back at all or only in a very limited way. It's true play-back can have some negative effects, but I think these can be mitigated if you know the species you're going after. Some species are more sensitive than others and certain times of the year may affect birds differently.
The same arguments here can be used for pishing in general. You're definitely affecting the birds "normal" behavior (that's pretty much the point if you're looking to have them come out for you).
As with most things in life, I don't think a pure black or white view is really possible. There's definitely a lot of grey in the middle when you consider overuse, breeding/non-breeding, scarcity, etc. Some people might say the best option then would be to not use playback at all, but I think with a bit of examination, a happy medium can be reached.

Cheers,
Benji
 
Thanks to everyone for your responses.

On the nps.gov website, I recently found this information that you might find interesting.

RESPONSIBLE BIRDING IN YOSEMITE

1. Do not use any audio or mechanical device to attract birds or other wildlife (Code of Federal Regulations). State law strictly prohibits broadcasting recorded vocalizations of an endangered species, such as the great grey owl (California Code of Resources). The use of such resources may induce stress and disrupt mating/nesting activities of wildlife.

2. Do not view birds or other wildlife with a flashlight or spotlght (Code of Federal Regulations).


From a personal perspective, just because an activity may be "legal" does not mean that it is necessarily "ethical." For instance, I doubt that any of you throw rocks into bushes to flush out birds that you are having difficulty viewing even though that may not be illegal. I also doubt that you chase after quail or road runners that appear on a path and then they run off into the brush even though that also may not be illegal.

Les
 
sless13 said:
Thanks Patrick for your balanced and well-thought-out answer that addressed some important ethical issues.
Apparently the first two respondees had no such concerns.
Click to expand...

Is there a reason you are being rude with no reason at all? They gave perfectly plausible replies that were directly related to the topic.
Why would they be on this website if they had no valid concern for wildlife?
 
For those of us in the UK it's worth bearing in mind that you require a licence to lure certain birds species with a sound recording, or so I've been informed by rangers who know their stuff, the list includes birds like nightjar.
On the other hand there are various manual ways of attracting birds, pishing and beyond, which may equally stress birds, so where does this argument really begin and end?

I've never used a sound recording but the other 'manual' stuff I'll have given a go, moreso if the species is a little bit rarer or otherwise more interesting if I'm perfectly honest about, but always within reason.
 
Keith Dickinson said:
The guide has to make a living, if using judicious tape luring ensures that their clients get a good species list and therefore recommend them to others, then I am in favour of the guide.
Click to expand...

Birdingcraft said:
...one should just use common sense-like not using playback on endangered species, refraining from using it in heavily birded areas (because a lot of playback might already be occurring).
Click to expand...


Given guides are likely to be in the same areas repeatedly, trying to show clients largely the same highly-demanded species, the likelyhood is that some guides are actually amongst the worst offenders, repeatedly using playback on the same individual birds.

Yes, the guides may feel they need to use playback to keep the client happy, and thus guarantee a living, but if the client can resolve this by using a tad of responsiblity themselves - I would hope they would question their guide if they started to use playback, and indicate they don't wish to bird in this fashion.
 
kristoffer said:
Sure, I´m sure it can be negative to the birds in several aspects. However it can be crucial to keep tourists coming to the forest and if they stopped playing and the number of tourists would drop, the forest would probably be used for other purposes and perhaps destroyed. Now that would be a big problem for the birds.
Click to expand...

I don't buy this argument - most birders going to an area will understand if the drawbacks of playback are politely explained. Many top birding ocations do now have bans on playback, there are not drops in numbers of visitors - birders will continue to visit, neither guide nor tourist will suffer, nor bird.
 
It depends really, if your in an area with lots of food available then I don't see a problem with using recordings. However if your in a barren desolate area where the bird will just be wasting it's energy that's just wrong.
 
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