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Jungle unhindered: where in the world? (1 Viewer)

I did not think of Podocarpus, a national park in Ecuador that we also visited. Close to the public roads it is good and likewise near the visitor center. However, rumors have that further away from the public there is rampant illegal logging and mining going on. But those areas where you can easily come it is free, trails exist (no guides), but I do not know anything about camping inside the park.

Niels

Reading this again, I think I need to make it clearer: You can have free access to the park and probably have good experiences. How much of the park has those good areas is, however, a question.
 
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Well, it depends. There are clear examples in what I listed, that destruction and expensive tourism aren't the only two option in existence - I am probably talking about Taman Negara too much, but... Tamana bloody Negara! Then you might say okay, Malaysia is super rich, so I raise you Yanachaga-Chemillen, in Peru of all places: state

I may have missed something but Taman Negara is dirt cheap. So cheap it's more-or-less free to get in and there is cheap accomodation over the river. Staying in a hide silly cheap too.

Oh and we had no problems wandering the trails in Khao Yai last year. I think there were some restrictions on some but it wasn't really and issue. But no you can't wander around at night.
 
Pay, pay and pay again if you want to save some accessible forest.

You are probably teasing, but just to point.

The best development is allowing a range of visits, especially inexpensive ones. This, among others, allows most socially just development. Maximum number of visitors gets educated and maximum local people benefit from tourism. Not that few luxury lodges get all the profit.

And I can give you many examples how tourism money failed to protect wildlife. When central law enforcement is poor, wildlife can get wiped out by poachers under the noses of tourism operators (Ranthambore). Administration can decide that even bigger profit can comes from cutting forest (Bialowieza) or oil drilling (Murchison Falls). Or administration can simply think short-sighted (Zimbabwe). These conservation experiences complement modern economic thinking, that maximizing profit does not solve all or most problems.
 
I may have missed something but Taman Negara is dirt cheap. So cheap it's more-or-less free to get in and there is cheap accomodation over the river. Staying in a hide silly cheap too.

Oh and we had no problems wandering the trails in Khao Yai last year. I think there were some restrictions on some but it wasn't really and issue. But no you can't wander around at night.

I'm glad somebody defended both these places - both places I love and have visited frequently. As a budget birder, Taman Negara is remarkable in maintaining its prices as low as it does. As Steve says: it's practically free to get in. A pound a month for a permit four years ago IIRC. And it can be extended for free if you want to stay longer! Okay, the boardwalk and tourist development around the HQ bring up ambivalent feelings for us 'purists' but its cheap and easy to get a quintessential visceral jungle experience by walking an extra mile or staying out in one of the 'silly cheap' hides. Having reached a point in life where I'm happy engaging whatever wildlife I see, rather than pursuing new places and new birds, I still fantasise about going completely feral and spending the full three months of a Malaysian visa hanging out in the wilder corners of Taman.

Opisska - your use of English idioms and sentence structuring never ceases to amaze me. Are you sure it's not your first language! :) Or are you programmed Artificial Intelligence ;)
 
Okay, now I am both confused myself and confusing other people, so just to clear things up: I always meant to describe Taman Negara as an example that a place I am looking for actually exists. I am as pro-TN as it gets, trust me!

Now I have absolutely no idea whether Britseye is being sarcastic or not, but I apologize for any misunderstanding stemming from my creative use of any aspect of the English language, and I do so both retro- and proactively.

Peace!
 
Interior Guyana

Take a look at opportunities through the Makushi Indians in Surama Village at the edge of the Rupununi in Guyana and the Iwokrama Rainforest Centre also in that area.

Sally Conyne
 
Okay, now I am both confused myself and confusing other people, so just to clear things up: I always meant to describe Taman Negara as an example that a place I am looking for actually exists. I am as pro-TN as it gets, trust me!

Now I have absolutely no idea whether Britseye is being sarcastic or not, but I apologize for any misunderstanding stemming from my creative use of any aspect of the English language, and I do so both retro- and proactively.

Peace!

Misunderstandings now cleared up,

I'll keep an eye on this because, like you, I'm someone who hates the idea of being guided and couldn't afford it anyway, as I often travel with my family. I too wish there were more places like TN. I'm not after real, remote wilderness - I like a shower, nice meal and a cold beer at the end of the day (basically I'm a dude) - but I want to be able to wander around on my own - at my own risk - preferably at night too.
 
Not.

Expressing admiration.

Peace out

Oh, again my misunderstanding, I am good at those. Then it's quite nice to hear - I spend a lot of time communicating in English (being a scientist in global collaborations, living in a foreign country and travelling all the time), but I am never sure if it really makes much sense or not. Just recently I got a paper heavily revised by a non-native speaker - I felt she makes my English actually worse, but what do I know?

But I digress,. This thread is now officially a goldmine of ideas I am pretty set on going to either Ecuador or Costa Rica this fall so I will eventually report on how my search of "my" jungle went!
 
I would add Wildsumaco in Ecuador to this list. It's a reserve at the foothills in eastern Ecuador, with a nice mix of lowland and range-restricted mid-elevation species. Plenty of trails with no guide required (when I visited in 2012). There is an expensive lodge but there is also budget housing geared toward visiting researchers, but open to the public. If I recall correctly is was $35/night back in 2012.
 
No need for a guide at either cat tien or cuc phuong in Vietnam. Not sure about camping but accommodation is not expensive
James
It's true there are lots of trails at Nam Cat Tien, most of which hardly anyone uses, and you don't have to have a guide. You can camp near the visitor centre (probably have to pay about $5?) but I'm sure "wild" camping would be frowned upon in any national park.The price of rooms has recently decreased at NCT to about $15.
It's interesting that's there's no mention of birds in this thread, so I'm guessing Jan is more interested in a wilderness experience (camping, purifying water, lighting campfires?, catching own food? not encountering too many locals or "elderly UK" birdwatchers?) and that's hard in a small country with 100 million people.
 
It's true there are lots of trails at Nam Cat Tien, most of which hardly anyone uses, and you don't have to have a guide. You can camp near the visitor centre (probably have to pay about $5?) but I'm sure "wild" camping would be frowned upon in any national park.The price of rooms has recently decreased at NCT to about $15.
It's interesting that's there's no mention of birds in this thread, so I'm guessing Jan is more interested in a wilderness experience (camping, purifying water, lighting campfires?, catching own food? not encountering too many locals or "elderly UK" birdwatchers?) and that's hard in a small country with 100 million people.

I mean I am really most interested in being left alone :) As a rule, I do not light fires (I would only in a the case such activity would be needed for my or my groups' survival or safety, which has however never happened to me) and I also am not good enough to catch my own food, so I bring it in with me (and pack out the trash so created). I have mentioned camping only because it is usually the way to achieve the abovementioned state of being left alone, as any other form of accommodation usually explicitly requires dealing with someone who provides it - again (and I know it's getting old by now), cudos to Taman Negara and their "Bumbuns", a self-service non-camping wilderness accommodation. I have never met anything like that elsewhere, but I would be more than happy to use such a thing anywhere, it's awesome and it is less intrusive than camping, so the wildlife comes closer to you.

Regarding the motivations - being able to hike into the jungle, set camp and then enjoy the wilderness through the night is one of the greatest experiences you can ever enjoy, regardless of which specific bird or mammal species you actually see. That's why I rank places where this is possible so high. That having said, being able to access wild rainforest freely without a guide even while being confined sleeping-wise to a designated location (as long as it is a nice place) is the next best thing, so the suggestion of such location is still very valuable to me.

In general, I see quite a bit of frown upon camping from several responses in the thread, which I find quite odd. Obviously, wild camping just anywhere has the potential to damage vegetation, cause erosion and stuff, which is undesirable, so the best case situation is when suitable campsites exist. I am almost afraid to say that at this point, but this is, again, what Taman Negara provides, so it is provably possible in rainforest. However even in the absence of those, dispersed camping is a well-proven concept and works even in highly-visited parks in the US: if the number of people wild camping is small, sites are not used over and over and people behave respectfully, is the impact really worse than that of building a lodge and ferrying people to it?
 
I do not hope you have taken my comments above about "don't know about camping" as anti camping. I used to do that 30 years ago, but today prefer to have a proper bed. Having said that, I can easily see some locations where opening up for general public to do camping in national parks would lead to permanent camps after a while approaching shanty-town structure.

Niels
 
Thanks andy! However I have actually been to Khao Yai in 2014 and besides a few short trails, everything was strictly guided only. Also camping seemed to be allowed only in the central campsite, with hundreds of locals. It was pretty nice nevertheless, we enjoyed it, but still quite restricted. (The enjoyment may have been increased by the fact that we discovered how to bypass some "guards" and do stuff that was guide-only on our own.)

Hundreds of locals you have at weekend. Same in Kaeng Krachan.
But Kaeng Krachan is very restricted for hiking at November 2019. No idea if it changed.
In March 2019 I was in Nam Nao. At some days was campers there, mostly I was alone. But you hear many birds but see very few.
 
I visited Argentina two times. Worth to visit is Calilegua and El Ray nationalpark. Also Parc Provinciales Uruguai.
These are very deep forests. There was no entry fee when I was there 6 years ago. But you need to bring all the food and drink.
Combination with other areas is very good like Laguan Los Pozuelos, dry and wet Chaco or Ibera, Mburucuya, Cabra Coral, Formosa and so on.
Big advantage is birdlife very close. The birds often do not escape when you come very near.
I have seen this in any other area. Maybe it is the same in other South American contries ?
But long distances need transport. In last years rent a car got very expensive.
 
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I would add Wildsumaco in Ecuador to this list.

Guys, please excuse that I'm resurrecting this dusty thread, but I need to ask - if you would return to Ecuador, what type of shoes/boots would you take to the rainforest? I've got every suggestion possible so far, from the sandals to the heavy military boots, but none from a single person, who has actually been there. :-D

Thanks, Pavel
 
Guys, please excuse that I'm resurrecting this dusty thread, but I need to ask - if you would return to Ecuador, what type of shoes/boots would you take to the rainforest? I've got every suggestion possible so far, from the sandals to the heavy military boots, but none from a single person, who has actually been there. :-D

Thanks, Pavel

Welcome to BirdForum Pavel. When I was in Ecuador I just used regular walking boots. That was fine everywhere I went. It's possible if you go somewhere like the Amazon you might need rubber boots in some places, although I didn't visit that area so can't confirm.
 
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