Binocularface
You've all got one...............!
I do not agree with this point. Science has advanced very rapidly since the victorian era; so the need to kill new species in order to learn more about them is no longer valid.
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Southern Migrant Hawker?!? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Suffolkringer
- Start date
I do not agree with this point. Science has advanced very rapidly since the victorian era; so the need to kill new species in order to learn more about them is no longer valid.
Adam W
Well-known member
Well I'm not sure its that simple, when it comes to brand new species unknown to science i can still see that there may be a need for a sample,of course science has progressed masively since then but there's still only so much you can learn without actually having one.
birdboybowley
Well-known member.....apparently so ;)
Disagree with that Ad - what really can a dead bird tell you?? Not much. Watching it as it goes about it's life will tell you so much more. In the last Birding World there was a story about a new-to-science species (antpitta maybe, can't remeber exactly) that has been officially described without the taking of a specimen - so it can be done. I've said before, go to Tring or the AMNH anf there are drawers full of pittas for example, yet these same species are still actively collected (not by Tring I should add) so what's another dead one gonna tell you that the last one can't?? Scientists are wired up differently....
dantheman
Bah humbug
This is a little bit silly in some respects IMO ... since when did we all turn into fluffy buggy-huggers ..???
Every single person on this forum is directly or indirectly responsible for the deaths of thousands upon thousands of insects and other invertebrates every year ... radiator grills, eating of imported tropical fruit, eating of home-grown wheat products, use of the flushing toilet etc etc all bear testimony to this.
I am in total agreement that the taking of showy insect specimens for personal pleasure (and depriving others of the pleasure/ adversely effecting population levels of rare species) is wrong in this day and age. It's just getting the cut off point right, but no-one can really take the higher moral ground on insect death issues ... can they?
Every single person on this forum is directly or indirectly responsible for the deaths of thousands upon thousands of insects and other invertebrates every year ... radiator grills, eating of imported tropical fruit, eating of home-grown wheat products, use of the flushing toilet etc etc all bear testimony to this.
I am in total agreement that the taking of showy insect specimens for personal pleasure (and depriving others of the pleasure/ adversely effecting population levels of rare species) is wrong in this day and age. It's just getting the cut off point right, but no-one can really take the higher moral ground on insect death issues ... can they?
Adam W
Well-known member
I'm sure a dead bird a can tell you an awful lot as others have said we wouldnt know half of what we do if it wasnt for samples.I'm not a scientist so i would no the details but it seems fairly obvious that there would be certain things that could only really be learned by studying dead samples much as is still done with medical students and humans.
I'd agree that repeatedly taking samples once you already have them seems pointless.
Binocularface
You've all got one...............!
Why Adam; can you ellaberate on exactly what we can learn from a dead sample that we would not know through photographs and perhaps taking a DNA sample?
Adam W
Well-known member
Not really to be honest because as i said I'm not a scientist so i wouldnt really know the specifics but it just doesnt seem at all unreasonable to me that taking the odd sample of as yet unknown species would have valid scientific reasons, perhaps a scientist who would know could enlighten us?
Binocularface
You've all got one...............!
There is a big difference IMHO between specifically targeting an insect (bird, or any other animal) and killing one by accident!
Exactly correct on every issue macrourus. Also there are birds that have been taken whose identity is still uncertain.
bedfontbirder
Well-known member
The Moore-hen
Association of Satirical Birders & Ornitholigists
Shouldn't everyone be posting on the insects thread which even has a picture of said 'hawker slaughterer'?
If you think this 'collecting' is from the victorian age at least this bloke has some sort of an excuse...i think that is when he was born!
Looks like an extra from an Indiana Jones Film! :-O
If you think this 'collecting' is from the victorian age at least this bloke has some sort of an excuse...i think that is when he was born!
Looks like an extra from an Indiana Jones Film! :-O
bedfontbirder
Well-known member
As I originally stated, I was talking generally, not about any specific species or taxa. Of course nowadays there is far less reason to collect birds for scientific studies unless it be as an example in the case of bird flu or other cantagious diseases. It is often the case that it is far easier to study the birds in situ going about their daily business.
With specific reference to invertebrates though, many species are too small to study and examine in the wild and many require dissection for identification.
I do not condone collection of any animals purely for the pleasure of sticking a pin through them and mounting them and saying that I have such and such a species in my personal collection.
I reiterate that even today, according to whatever Taxon involved, it is sometimes necessary to take and kill some animals for study. Even the experts can't always tell one species from another 'in the field', and if it benefits the future survival of wildlife I have no problem with it.
Cheers,
Adam
With specific reference to invertebrates though, many species are too small to study and examine in the wild and many require dissection for identification.
I do not condone collection of any animals purely for the pleasure of sticking a pin through them and mounting them and saying that I have such and such a species in my personal collection.
I reiterate that even today, according to whatever Taxon involved, it is sometimes necessary to take and kill some animals for study. Even the experts can't always tell one species from another 'in the field', and if it benefits the future survival of wildlife I have no problem with it.
Cheers,
Adam
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