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Old Sunday 9th October 2005, 17:49   #1
Surreybirder
Ken Noble
 
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tree ID

There's a small tree near us which is about 15 feet high and with a spread of perhaps 18 feet. The trunk divides almost at ground level. Can anyone ID it from the attached pics? The underside of the leaves is paler than the upperside but not whitish.
(I am trying to ID a moth which had mined some of the leaves so the first step is to ID the tree.)
Thanks,
Ken
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Old Sunday 9th October 2005, 18:14   #2
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Hello there surreybirder,youve got me puzzled on this one.My first thought was Almond,Prunus dulcis but the almost ground level branching suggests not.Next possibility is the Snowbell tree,Styrax japonica ,hard to tell from the images though.Can you recall any bark characteristics?

Magnified the full tree image and i think neither of the above are correct,im getting my books out!

The bark looks reddish at the base,this suggests a cherry var' but leaves seem more Spindle,Euonymus .Hopefully someone with more knowledge will happen along and put us both out of our misery!

Last edited by Tinca : Sunday 9th October 2005 at 18:48. Reason: New guess!
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Old Sunday 9th October 2005, 19:58   #3
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Thanks for trying, Tinca.
The bark appears pretty smoth in the pic. I thought that cherry tended to have quite a noticeable texture?
I've tried to blow up the bit showing the trunk in case it helps.
Ken
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Old Sunday 9th October 2005, 22:29   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surreybirder
Thanks for trying, Tinca.
The bark appears pretty smoth in the pic. I thought that cherry tended to have quite a noticeable texture?
I've tried to blow up the bit showing the trunk in case it helps.
Ken
Possibly Grey Willow (Salix cinerea)?

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Old Monday 10th October 2005, 06:43   #5
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Originally Posted by Yaffle
Possibly Grey Willow (Salix cinerea)?

Yaffle
Thx yaffle,i think you are spot on.It was nagging me all night!Knew i'd seen this or similar leaved shrubby tree,DOH! just about expresses how i feel.

Could this pin down your moth surreybirder?The ancient entomologist's posts have had me fascinated lately and i profess an awakening interest in the wee things that crawl and fly.

Last edited by Tinca : Monday 10th October 2005 at 06:49.
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Old Monday 10th October 2005, 06:57   #6
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Thanks Yaffle and Tinca.
It's a bit of a puzzle. I may have to come back to you on what species it is.
Ken
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Old Monday 10th October 2005, 11:45   #7
Joern Lehmhus
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Definitely a Willow, Genus Salix... But that could become tough there, as there are lots of hybrids and the species in themselves are quite variable...

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Old Monday 10th October 2005, 13:54   #8
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Originally Posted by Joern Lehmhus
Definitely a Willow, Genus Salix... But that could become tough there, as there are lots of hybrids and the species in themselves are quite variable...

Jörn

This is definitely Grey Willow or Common Sallow (whichever name you prefer), Salix cinerea subsp. oleifolia.
Also formerly called Salix atrocinerea.

Ken, your photograph even shows the rusty hairs on the underside of the leaf, which help confirm the subspecies as well as the species.

As Joern says, there is much hybridisation in Salix and S. cinerea plays its full part. In some parts of the country, Salix aurita x cinerea is more common than either of its parents. However, Ken's photographs of the leaves suggest that this is good, pure S. cinerea.

A true native, of course, which is more than is certain for a number of willows.

Alan
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Old Monday 10th October 2005, 14:23   #9
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Thanks, Alan. I'm impressed!
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Old Monday 10th October 2005, 14:51   #10
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Originally Posted by Surreybirder
Thanks, Alan. I'm impressed!
Ken
It's good to see a set of photographs showing all the right features!

I hope you get the moth ID now.

Alan
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Old Monday 10th October 2005, 16:40   #11
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Originally Posted by Silver
It's good to see a set of photographs showing all the right features!

I hope you get the moth ID now.

Alan
Nothing is ever straight forward. I sent the leaf-mine to my county recorder. I need him to confirm that it is from the same tree (I think it is). The genus of moth in question is not supposed to occur on willow sp. Where will it end?
At least I should be able to recognise a sallow in future
Ken
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