Pentax Papilio 6.5x21 (1 Viewer)

Hello,

I bought a 6.5x21 Papilio today, and I must say I'm quite impressed by the performance of this nice, little binocular. The close focus distance of 0.5 m is truly amazing, but on the medium and long range I was impressed too. Very nice FOV, sharp, excellent colour representation, and quite easy to hold steady. My Zeiss 10x40 BT* is way brighter, but not quite as sharp as the little Pentax. The build quality seems very good, everything works flawlessly and smooth. The diopter on the right eyepiece is quite firm, with detents, and stays where I set it. The weight is 325 grams with strap attached, really nice since you don't notice it being around your neck. The Zeiss with 710 grams feels heavy around my neck.
My back pain is the reason that I went looking for a small, lightweight binocular. Since the Papilio has a built-in tripod socket underneath, and since I recently own this binocular/video rest:

http://www.birdforum.net/reviews/showproduct.php/product/301/cat/24/limit/recent/date/1156344836

I thought that it might be a splendid combination for effortless viewing.
It's a somewhat strange contraption to wear around the neck, but it gives shakefree images that I only experienced otherwise in my Canon 10x30 IS.
I can use the combo one-handed, giving my right arm rest to ease the pain, or even without holding it at all, resting the binos against my glasses and keep both hands down. This is hands-down the best viewing comfort (pun intended)

Though the 6.5x magnification is somewhat on the small side, I usually take out my Canon 18x50 IS too, and I bought a travel tripod to put them on as well, today: a Velbon Lux i L. The tripod folds down very small, but still reaches a height that I can comfortably use my Canon when standing ( I'm 6'4").

I'm really chuffed with the little Pentax. I'll be selling my Zeiss 10x40BT*.

Best regards,

Ronald

Well,

Waddaya know...?

The Pentax 6.5x21 is all I use these days. I'm still surprised by its performance, it's a real gem that I can take anywhere.
Going light these days explains my refound enthusiasm in birdwatching that I've missed dearly for many, many years. Great birding with small glass, is my new motto.
I've been carrying heavy stuff for far too long, and since I only bird in daytime nowadays, a small glass will do fine.

I've sold everything else, the Canons, the Zeiss, the tripod, the whole lot.

I'll get a back-up pair of 6.5x21 Papilio's and that's it.
I wish I had discovered these years earlier.

A compact only for birding? Well, yes, in daytime it beats heavier stuff, as it is quicker on the eye, effortless in lifting it as often as I need, easier to hold in prolonged viewing, and when not in use, it's around my neck and I don't notice it. I make more hours with these compacts than I did with any of my other optics, so the term 'serious birding' for me means: birding with my compacts.

Best regards,

Ronald

PS : I don't use the video rest that was in the link in my first post anymore since my back is better.

Ronald,
I admire your ideas on "bird lite", and totally believe the things you say about the little Pentax. It fits your needs perfectly, and I am happy for you, and hope go forever with this minimal setup.

But I worry. Your arguments, although reasonable, are those of a thinker, suspiciously reasonable, in fact somewhat philosophical. I am afraid that what you are experiencing is not arrival at "the truth", any more than any other binocular you have ever owned was arrival at "the truth". Many of us are familiar with this false destination. I fear this is nothing more than another extreme phase of binomania. You know too much. There will likely be trouble ahead.

Me, I am getting tired of toting and using my 8x42 Zeiss FL. Too sleek and light, too easy, too perfect, no character to it. I am looking for something bigger and heavier, that screams "I am a binocular, respect that!", like a 10x50 Porro. Trouble stretches out from me in all three dimension. Or four.

We appear to be headed in opposite directions, two seekers in Flatland. But if Flatland wraps around (some say it does!), we shall meet on the other side, where our paths will converge, probably on the 8x32 SE. Which may be "the truth".
Ron

Hi Ron,

So you think there's trouble ahead? Hmm... I can't deny I've always had "a thing" concerning binoculars, where others do fancy camera's, or cars, or whatever.
Maybe it's the sunshine we've had for days on end here lately, that colours my judgement, but there's more to it. I've always had a weak spot for ergonomics and, in a more general sense, for practical use. My arguments for using small glass are embedded in the results of practical experience, rather than great optics. I've HAD great optics, as a matter of fact. I just find that I'm using the little Pentax all the time and it's practical use is the real joy, and half of the work so to speak.

If it's just an extreme phase of binomania, I don't know, only time will tell. I see it more as an experiment to see how I'll be doing with only one small glass. The proverbial deserted island-theory put to practice, in an ocean of optical excellence.
Can I withstand the urge? One thing you're right about, is that I know to much.
Five years on the forum has brought me a world of knowledge, provided by miriads of opinions, reviews, background basics by optical experts, it's been a constant learning process for me, but the practical use of a binocular has always been my main concern and it will always be. If the optics match with my eyes, too, then that's a great bonus.
I won't buy great optics if I would have trouble with practical use in my daily routine.
Swarovisions may be today's pinnacle in optics, and I have the money to afford them, but they won't provide the ease of use I have with the small glass. I've put up with ergonomically less than acceptable bins because I went for the optics. I tolerated the weight of the Canons to marvel at the 18x mag. They are simply too heavy to use.
Other - and lighter - bins had a bad balance, or other annoying ergonomical features.

For now I'm happy, let's see what the future brings.

Best regards,

Ronald

A few days ago I ordered a Papilio 6,5x21.
It is so different from most of the other stuff, and its low price and unique features were impossible to withstand.

I already own the Vortex Fury 6,5x32 and absolutely love it. The Papilio lacks the extremely wide FOV and super eye relief, but it shouldn't be measured against mid- or fullsize binoculars, but against other compacts.

Pushing pocket bins to 8x, 10x or even more is a bad idea. 6x or 7x is unusual but makes up for a much better bin in all respects.

The Papilio will follow me as a backup bin when I don't feel like carrying both a 10x32 and having a 6,5x32 in the backpack.

I am very eager to see how it performs in terms of speed and ease of use, where the Fury is absolutely brilliant.

Have had the 6.5x21 for a few days. It is very slightly out of collimation, but I can still handle it. It helps to close the eyes for a second while putting it down, so it is not a problem.

General impressions:

+ Surprisingly sharp and large sweet spot
+ Awesome for close-ups.
+ Magnification seems larger (reverse porro thing)
- Considerably less bright than other bins with a 3mmish exit pupil (the Minox BV 8x25)
- Distinctly small FOV/AFOV
- Bulkier than expected, requires a different grip
- Not very speedy in real use because of the FOV and the grip issue.

To be honest, I had hoped for a little more, but it is still a keeper.
If one can avoid thinking of it as another compact bin, and regard it as a device for close-up viewing, this is a gem.

I think this thing is indispensable when going to various museums, vivariums et cetera. Only imagination sets the limits for how it can be used and I thoroughly recommend it to anyone.
Just don't think "Binoculars". It is more, and less, than a good pair of binoculars.

//L

At close focus it is about 8x I believe.

Looksharp,

I got a papilio 6.5 for my daughter a few years ago, and agree completely with your assesment of it. In the vain hope that a Pentax representative might someday read this thread, I'd like to point out that the reason why the Papilio is rather dim and suffers from somewhat poor contrast and subdued colors is that there seem to be single-coated glass surfarces in the optical system. The eyelens at least is not multicoated, and this is really a shame as it also means that stray light coming from behind will get reflected back to your eyes. As just about any binocular coming from the Far East and retailing for more than about 50$ now is fully multicoated, the least we should be expecting is that the Papilio will be updated with modern coatings. Other than this, I find very little to complain about, especially considering the price and the unique features this binocular has.

Kimmo

Well well well,

that didn't even cross my mind, but now that you point it out, it's obvious that this is the reason for the dimness.
But I must say it handles straylight very well. That is, OTOH, the weak point of the much brighter Minox BV.
Guess one should always bring both and use the Pentax when it's backlight and the Minox when looking away from the sun

I just got a Pentax Papilio 6.5x21 delivered a few days ago, and am sending them back. Near as I can tell, there is nothing at all wrong with the collimation of the unit, an issue some have mentioned. The main problem for me is the stray light reflected back at my eyes whenever there is light coming from behind me (or even from the side), just as Kimmo says above. When this happens, it drives me nuts, and in cases where there is a lot of this light, it can interfere fairly significantly with the view. As I had been planning to use these bins primarily for butterflies and dragonflies on the sunny days when they are most active, I foresaw lots of stray light and accompanying frustration in my planned future with the bins.

It's good to hear that this problem and the dimness could be solved with multicoated surfaces, because, as has been noted by others, they otherwise really have quite a nice view for the price (I assume multicoating wouldn't add too terribly to the price), focus amazingly closely, and are extremely light and pretty compact. Get on it, Pentax! With those problems solved, I would definitely buy the next version (would certainly not mind a larger field of view, either.).

PS I found them ergonomically just fine for me, no real problems here with the grip.

Looksharp,

Thanks for your input.
My experience with the 6.5x Papilio's is a bit different. The FOV is what the specs say it is, 131 m/1000m, to my eyes anyway. I experience the FOV as nicely roomy. The bulky housing is excellent for my hands, I like some heft and my grip is done with my handpalms around the bin. Coupled with the 6.5x mag this gives an unbelievably steady image, and the small weight makes them fast on the eyes.
I don't see the dimness, only very nice colour saturation which may be a result of it.
I don't mind anyway. The great depth of field is what really makes me enjoy the view, it's more 3-D than I experienced in other bins.

The Papilio's see a lot of use, because they are so easy to take along. I only use them in daytime, I know at dusk they'll be of little use.

Best regards,

Ronald

The worst , or the only of the flaws that I find bothersome, is the inferior light transmission. If Pentax/Hoya bothers to address that, it will make it a lot better and it sholdn't be too hard to release a MkII version. AR coatings don't really need more a more spacey envelope

The FOV could be greater, but after all this is a compact bin. Probably the objective slide mechanism doesn't allow larger optic tubes. The FOV is acceptable.

The shape requires a totally different grip that hasn't come natural to me yet.
I have found that if I let my left hand grip the slimmer front part, it gives great stability and also a light shade. My hands are large so grabbing a "fat" binocular is not a problem, but it feels a little strange with such a thick bin with such a tiny focusing wheel.

The reverse-porro construction gives a greater perceived magnification, one step ahead of roofs and two steps ahead of ordinary porri.
However, the close distance between the objectives also means that 3D-perception at medium viewing distance is suppressed. But the reverse-porro is the only way to achieve this close focus ability.

As you may know, I have a 6.5x roof that I treasure highly. It is not a real compact bin, some say it's nearly a full-sizer. When I bring it, it always makes me amazed. When I don't, that's when I should carry a compact because one binocular is better than none.

I'm happy that you like yours so thoroughly. Mine will most likely see a more limited use, but I am still a happy owner.

//L

looksharp65 said:

The worst , or the only of the flaws that I find bothersome, is the inferior light transmission. If Pentax/Hoya bothers to address that, it will make it a lot better and it sholdn't be too hard to release a MkII version. AR coatings don't really need more a more spacey envelope

The FOV could be greater, but after all this is a compact bin. Probably the objective slide mechanism doesn't allow larger optic tubes. The FOV is acceptable.

The shape requires a totally different grip that hasn't come natural to me yet.
I have found that if I let my left hand grip the slimmer front part, it gives great stability and also a light shade. My hands are large so grabbing a "fat" binocular is not a problem, but it feels a little strange with such a thick bin with such a tiny focusing wheel.

The reverse-porro construction gives a greater perceived magnification, one step ahead of roofs and two steps ahead of ordinary porri.
However, the close distance between the objectives also means that 3D-perception at medium viewing distance is suppressed. But the reverse-porro is the only way to achieve this close focus ability.

As you may know, I have a 6.5x roof that I treasure highly. It is not a real compact bin, some say it's nearly a full-sizer. When I bring it, it always makes me amazed. When I don't, that's when I should carry a compact because one binocular is better than none.

I'm happy that you like yours so thoroughly. Mine will most likely see a more limited use, but I am still a happy owner.

//L

Click to expand...

I have small hands, that makes the grip more comfortable for me, for me big porro's are a lot more difficult to handle. If Pentax were to release a MkII with FMC, and add waterproofing JIS-6 level too, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
While I don't use the extreme close focus much, it always strikes me how much detail I can see in flowers, beetles, bumblebees, butterflies and cat's hairs. A few days ago, I brought them to a garden party ( I take them everywhere in my coat pocket ) and a bloke saw them and wanted to try them. After experiencing the close-up trick he made a note of the brand name, model name and designation, and said he was going to buy them the next day. He thought that they would be expensive, and when I told him for how little he could buy them, he definitely wanted a pair. He owned several bins, and was a birder as well as a naturalist. I saw a Spotted Flycatcher high up in a tree through the Papilio's, and Canada Geese in the fields surrounding the mansion. Popped the bins in my vest pocket and went on partying. o

Best regards,

Ronald

I sometimes mount my pair on a lightweight tripod with ball head to look at bugs on flowers etc.

Very nice!

Makes me wanting the 8,5x too. For a bit of prolonged viewing, and unprofessional seawatching.

I removed the little glittery butterfly sticker on top of my 6,5x's. Leaves no marks and looks better without it, less like a toy. Grip is even better without it, all rubber now.

Best regards,

Ronald

I recently bought both the 6.5 and the 8.5 at great prices and both have their place, though they don't fully replace regular birding bins. I use them primarily for bugs and butterflies. They would be much better with anti-reflective coatings and it would be nice if the adjuster had a higher gear ratio (is that the right term) - it takes a lot of cranking to move from a close-up butterfly to a far off bird. Maybe Ricoh will bring out new and improved versions of these nice little bins (but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that).

For older hands the 6.5X helps steady the view and looking from inside out there's no stray light. Might could put a set of blinders to good use.

Most of my bins are cursed/blessed w/narrow FOV, so I've no problem locating a target or pacing one in flight.

Love looking at butterflies, horseflies and am on the trail of the elusive Spanish fly that I recall hearing so many enchanted tales about from my youth.

I certainly love mine, I just look at my dogs nose on those rainy days I can't get out. It's just too cool. I only wish they were waterproofed.