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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Are alpha binos just getting too expensive? (perspective) (1 Viewer)

What is derogatory about Communist China, a factual term? It is what it is.

The term chicom

Various dictionaries state eg, " derogatory, disparaging or contemptuous term used to refer to Communist China. Originating from the Vietnamese war that the USA entered into".

That is a fact, and again, is what it is.

Pat.
 
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I can't find any ethnic slur in this thread, Old Hat...am I missing something?

The term chicom

Various dictionaries state eg, " derogatory, disparaging or contemptuous term used to refer to Communist China. Originating from the Vietnames war that the USA entered into".

That is a fact, and again, is what it is.

Pat.

I'm not one that needs a dictionary to tell me whether to be offended or not. I know for a fact that some people here did not even know what that term meant, so how can one be offended when you don't even know what it is?
 
Gentlemen

To be clear overt political and ethnic insults are not part of Birdforum culture. Political debates and other lively arguments can be pursued on Ruffled Feathers. None of this is acceptable elsewhere on Birdforum.

Lee
Moderator
 
It is a slur in our country and those who use it know it is and yet hide behind the convenient alternative explanation that has allowed so many such terms to stay alive and well.
 
It is a slur in our country and those who use it know it is and yet hide behind the convenient alternative explanation that has allowed so many such terms to stay alive and well.

Why don't you just drop this? Read Lee's post. He even quoted it with out commenting on it. When you see something you don't like, use the "Report Post" button (triangle with ! at the bottom underneath the avatar) and let the Forum moderators or administrators handle it. It does no good to start throwing stones. That just starts a rock fight that ends up in Ruffled Feathers. Practically anything said today insults somebody.
 
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Practically anything said today insults somebody.
Yes, especially when so many people even enjoy taking offense on behalf of anonymous others, at the slightest excuse. I think this has become one of the major drivers of today's culture wars. (For what it's worth, I had never heard "chicom" myself and let it pass as a reference to the nature of the Chinese economy.)

I would apologize for having started all this, except I didn't. I was just asking for some more data points on past/current binocular prices. And yes, of course the story is even more impressive at the lower end of the market. (Personally, if I can enjoy a high quality bino for 30 years with no problems, or possibly free service if necessary, I'm not going to complain about the initial cost.)
 
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It is a slur in our country and those who use it know it is and yet hide behind the convenient alternative explanation that has allowed so many such terms to stay alive and well.

See Post 23. Other action has been taken off the board.

Lee
Moderator
 
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All members. Action has been taken.

Lets all now return to the thread which is about binoculars.

Lee
Moderator
 
I think for anyone trying to find their first pair of premium binos, the new prices have got to the point where they don't represent much value, even taking amortizisation into account. Luckily there are enough addicts/former addicts (like me) out there so that the second hand market is stuffed with excellent bargains. It just means holding fire and waiting for the right binos.
 
Value, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

Absolutely agree. And there are differing opinions on at what price level or performance level 'premium' begins.

According to statistics I have seen the bulk of USA market is below $500 for binos. But there are surely folks to whom $250 for a pair of binos would represent a significant investment. On the basis that the USA market is mostly below $500 then perhaps premium starts at $1000 and there are plenty of fine instruments in that neck of the woods. The atmosphere gets rarer at $2,000 and above and as Pileatus points out the perception of value is very personal.

Lee
 
Absolutely agree. And there are differing opinions on at what price level or performance level 'premium' begins.

According to statistics I have seen the bulk of USA market is below $500 for binos. But there are surely folks to whom $250 for a pair of binos would represent a significant investment. On the basis that the USA market is mostly below $500 then perhaps premium starts at $1000 and there are plenty of fine instruments in that neck of the woods. The atmosphere gets rarer at $2,000 and above and as Pileatus points out the perception of value is very personal.

Lee

I agree here as well. I have long held that individual perceptions are key to satisfaction with practically any product you care to name. Sometimes whatever perceptions, preconceived notions, brand loyalty and other factors simply don't get satisfied unless the user has spent top dollar and thus has some degree of confidence that they have top end stuff. Whatever improvements are there are enough to quell the little voices. This is also not to say there are not those with eye sight that is capable enough of seeing differences to make the differences matter.

From my perspective, a binocular costing upwards of $2,000 had better be able to definitively end any argument over which binocular is best with just a little use, when compared to one that costs less than half of that. I've been looking for an alpha glass that made me go WOW for about 20 years. Has not happened yet. When I have to have a good $1,000 and a $2,000 side by side for several hours on tripods to ferret out differences, the $1,000 glass will win my money every time. I'm not saying the more expensive glass is not better. My perspective goes WOW look at how good this Zeiss Conquest HD or Maven B2 is for less than half the money. Paying twice the price for differences that are likely below the threshold of detection by the human eye has little value to me. I don't hear Mother Teresa leading a chorus of Heavenly Angels in a soul stirring rendition of Ave Maria or the Hallelujah Chorus when I look through a top dollar glass. Some do. As Lee points out, the perception of value is indeed very personal. It is your money, spend it as you need to.
 
The research/technology from the very high end eventually trickles down to the "consumer level" in so many industries. I argue that everyone benefits from the existence of the alpha binos, even those that purchase cheaper models- which have improved greatly. More options in a marketplace, even ones above one's price point, are never a bad thing.
 
I like to complain about the cost of top-end bins today, but I have to admit their inflated pricing is similar to what I see in other luxury goods these days. Bicycles for enthusiasts are in the 2.5-6 thousand dollar range, rather than being around 1-1.5 as was the case not so long ago (and you can _still_ get a great bike for $600). You can buy a superb watch for keeping time for <$20, and if you want something much less accurate but fully mechanical and self-winding, you can get it for <$100, but "respected" enthusiast watches are usually at least $1000 and generally several times that, even though most do nothing except imperfectly keep time and cost a lot to maintain. When you get to the "enthusiast" level for any product, the price will be substantial as compared to the humble alternatives that may work 99% as well (or may even work better, in the case of watches) for the job.

On the other hand, I have a hard time understanding why many of my middle class peers balk at spending more than $50 on binoculars. Many of them think nothing of spending $15-20 per restaurant meal on a regular basis, perhaps several times a week. Many buy _new_ vehicles that get poor mileage and spend many $$ on fuel every week. They needlessly spend hundreds of dollars a month on food, car payments, and fuel, but consider $250 a huge amount to spend on bins. I prefer to e.g. buy healthy foods at the grocery and do my own cooking. My food cost is ~$1.5 per person per (very tasty) meal. I know I can get a really good bin for $250, but I "save" so much money on food (and gasoline), that I can afford to buy a luxury bin once in a while if I want to. I feel fortunate that even though the high prices and my desires are silly and impractical, they are within my means to indulge.

--AP
 
It's all a matter of priority, that's all.


This is so true. Some folks we know are horrified by the prices of some binos but have tv sets the size of Washington State on the wall with surround-sound speakers and sound bars and humpin' pumpin' amplifiers while on their driveway sits a big SUV. We have a 32 inch tv and small Skoda estate car and more binos that a sane person could need. Different strokes for different folks.

Lee
 
Its not all about the glass IMO, its about the construction, how well will it stand up to years of hard use in all weathers, shrug off knocks and drops, will the mechanics keep working without degradation after a few seasons, will the armour still hug the body and not work loose.

Honestly, I use one of my SV`s almost everyday, I often find myself wondering why they don`t cost more.
 
Its not all about the glass IMO, its about the construction, how well will it stand up to years of hard use in all weathers, shrug off knocks and drops, will the mechanics keep working without degradation after a few seasons, will the armour still hug the body and not work loose.

Honestly, I use one of my SV`s almost everyday, I often find myself wondering why they don`t cost more.



I totally agree with this quote from Torview :t:


Andy w.
 
<snippage to create proper out of context quote>

I don't hear Mother Teresa leading a chorus of Heavenly Angels in a soul stirring rendition of Ave Maria or the Hallelujah Chorus when I look through a top dollar glass. Some do.

Steve,

So sorry you are not having the complete alpha experience. Perhaps you need to tweak the IPD? 3:)

Alan
 
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