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Birdlife is overdoing it (Times of Malta) (1 Viewer)

Russlac123 said:
Im not a supporter of any hunter, Im just saying that Birdlife, have not done something right because there is a lot of bad feeling towards them. Nobody likes being told what to do by an outsider in your life. Maybe they could have comprimised by letting them hunt a 'legal quarry species' as you put it, seeing a we still do. It sounds a tad hypocritical
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Fair enough but i assume that the problem is that they are allowed to shoot certain legal species but just ignore that fact and shoot whatever they want which is a difficult problem to deal with and also what seperates them from legal shooters over here.
 
'they' are people like us, they are not all animals that want to plot the global destruction of birds. They have always seen hunting growing up, they see nothing wrong with it or they wouldnt do it. Maybe education, allowance of hunting under strict conditions and financial reward for results would be better than, "you cant do that anymore" from an alien authority
 
Russlac

Remember fox hunting? Prince Harry shooting a Hen Harrier? Most of the stuff the brits shoot is breed for purpose.

The french think that it's just the rich that hunt in britain. In France it's everymans sport. Including the local priest!!
 
Russlac123 said:
'they' are people like us, they are not all animals that want to plot the global destruction of birds. They have always seen hunting growing up, they see nothing wrong with it or they wouldnt do it. Maybe education, allowance of hunting under strict conditions and financial reward for results would be better than, "you cant do that anymore" from an alien authority
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Surely it's illegal under Maltese law? They are breaking the law of their own country, but the authorities aren't as stringent as they should be in doing anything about it.
 
rosbifs said:
Russlac

Remember fox hunting? Prince Harry shooting a Hen Harrier? Most of the stuff the brits shoot is breed for purpose.

The french think that it's just the rich that hunt in britain. In France it's everymans sport. Including the local priest!!
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Most of the stuff Brits shoot is not bred for purpose, there is a worryingly common misconception that all shooting in Britain is is toffs shooting driven game but nothing could be further from the truth most of us are ordinary working people shooting Pigeons, Rabbits, Wilfowl etc etc and if we do shoot game its small scale informal walked up game and in my case and that of many others that doesnt even involve the releasing of any birds.

Shooting in Britain is most certainly an everymans sport, age, sex,race,class are all irrelevant anyone can do it.
 
Russlac123 said:
They have always seen hunting growing up, they see nothing wrong with it or they wouldnt do it
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You should have had the word illegal in there as there's no reason why they should see hunting as wrong and not do it they just need to stay within the law thats the problem.
 
Adam W said:
Fair enough but i assume that the problem is that they are allowed to shoot certain legal species but just ignore that fact and shoot whatever they want which is a difficult problem to deal with and also what seperates them from legal shooters over here.
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not entirely true there are shooters over here which consider anything to be fair game, hence our raptor populations current problems.

if a group of people prove them selves to be incapable of obeying the laws. then the only way to deal with the problem is to ensure that they cannot be in the situation to break them and ban shooting totally.

don't bother with the usual ban driving because some people speed nonsense reply, driving is a general necessity for the continuation of modern life shooting is not.
 
captaincarot said:
not entirely true there are shooters over here which consider anything to be fair game, hence our raptor populations current problems.

if a group of people prove them selves to be incapable of obeying the laws. then the only way to deal with the problem is to ensure that they cannot be in the situation to break them and ban shooting totally.

don't bother with the usual ban driving because some people speed nonsense reply, driving is a general necessity for the continuation of modern life shooting is not.
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You can always find exceptions to anything but in general shooters in Malta are criminal idiots and shooters here arent yes I'm sure there will be exceptions on both sides but its not right to punish the majority based on the actions of a few where as in Malta it is the majority that is causing the problem.

The driving example you gave is not nonsense by the way, we dont NEED to drive any more than we need to hunt(i cant drive) some people choose to like i choose to hunt and why do you automatically assume that continuing modern life is a good thing and something old fashioned must be a bad thing?

You seem to be saying that its okay to break the law if its something most people chose to do because it makes life easier but if its something you personally dont like then lets ban it,sounds like your the one talking nonsense to me.
 
correct me if im wrong but what we shoot here mostly ends up on somebodys table NOT the point in malta unless someone can tell me if Whoopoe pie tastes nice
 
not entirely true there are shooters over here which consider anything to be fair game, hence our raptor populations current problems.

if a group of people prove them selves to be incapable of obeying the laws. then the only way to deal with the problem is to ensure that they cannot be in the situation to break them and ban shooting totally.
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You are in favour of banning shooting in the UK then? Neglecting the upkeep of moorland habitats for Grouse, would be worse for Hen Harriers in the long run?
 
Where as in Malta it is the majority that is causing the problem.
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Why is it banned then, if the majority want to do it? Would you be happy to have an outright ban on birdforums? I thought the EU was supposed to set the same standards across Europe, if you put total ban on hunting in Malta, you have to do it everywhere, or they will quite rightly feel aggrieved leading to more problems. Birdlife is not so aggresive in Greece, because it cant, maybe the Maltese are right to feel 'bullied'. Im not sticking up for them but I do think this situation could have been handled much better
 
Russlac123 said:
I thought the EU was supposed to set the same standards across Europe, if you put total ban on hunting in Malta, you have to do it everywhere, or they will quite rightly feel aggrieved leading to more problems.
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It doesnt quite work like that, I'm not suggesting that hunting in Malta is banned what I'm suggesting is that something is done about the laws they already have being ignored and people getting away with it.

We in Britain have legal hunting of legal quarry species and then protected species and barring the odd exception by a minority of idiots those laws are abided by but this clearly isnt the case in Malta it seems its generally accepted that 'hunters' in Malta can just do whatever they like and get away with it which is what i object to,what I'm saying is that they should follow the same standards as us with responsible hunting of legal quarry species.
 
Russlac123 said:
Why is it banned then, if the majority want to do it? Would you be happy to have an outright ban on birdforums? I thought the EU was supposed to set the same standards across Europe, if you put total ban on hunting in Malta, you have to do it everywhere, or they will quite rightly feel aggrieved leading to more problems. Birdlife is not so aggresive in Greece, because it cant, maybe the Maltese are right to feel 'bullied'. Im not sticking up for them but I do think this situation could have been handled much better
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Please, not to be offended, but I realize you have a basic problem telling the difference between poachers and hunters. If you just have a look at the many reports from Birdlife wolrdwide, you'll plainly find out that they're not trying to refrain legal hunting at all, and that applies also to BL-Malta. They're not handling against hunters, but with poachers.
 
That's very simplified. The Maltese believed they had the right to shoot or trap anything that moved - they were not poaching. EU rules now state that certain birds are protected and the times that they can hunt are restricted.

They now become poachers not hunters and therefore illegal.

I don't think many people disagree with the precis that what is happening is unsavoury and illegal the problem is how to stop it.....
 
rosbifs said:
That's very simplified. The Maltese believed they had the right to shoot or trap anything that moved - they were not poaching. EU rules now state that certain birds are protected and the times that they can hunt are restricted.

They now become poachers not hunters and therefore illegal.

I don't think many people disagree with the precis that what is happening is unsavoury and illegal the problem is how to stop it.....
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It is not simplified, it is simple by itself!

Maybe a similar "human" case can help me to make my point clear: Once slave trade was accepted (I'm not sure if legal is the right word), now it is not and everybody (?) understands it so, even countries and cultures where this seemed to be part of their ancient "tradition". The simple fact is that times and laws have (fortunately) changed and, in fact, slave traders are illegal nowadays, so (hopefully) we all expect them to be legally pursued.

So, back to the Maltese affair: BL-Malta is just pursuing poachers NOWADAYS according to CURRENT law schemes, known to every single Maltese citizen, crystal clear. So what in the world is now so painfully hard to understand? What is wrong with striving legality?
 
Some of you just know the current affairs from the news about illegal hunting... None of you had to experience hunting a decade ago were hunters use to go out and shoot at anything for the taxidermy collection... how i already said illegal hunting is still rampant but deacreasing and results have shown rapidly more people respect nature and more awrness is done towards birds. Slowly things are advancing and heading in the right way

where else places like lebanon its the place that is really destroying birds populations were soldiers and police themselves kill hundreds of birds of ANY species

But no one will dare to take action!
 
Adam W said:
You can always find exceptions to anything but in general shooters in Malta are criminal idiots and shooters here arent yes I'm sure there will be exceptions on both sides but its not right to punish the majority based on the actions of a few where as in Malta it is the majority that is causing the problem.

The driving example you gave is not nonsense by the way, we dont NEED to drive any more than we need to hunt(i cant drive) some people choose to like i choose to hunt and why do you automatically assume that continuing modern life is a good thing and something old fashioned must be a bad thing?

You seem to be saying that its okay to break the law if its something most people chose to do because it makes life easier but if its something you personally dont like then lets ban it,sounds like your the one talking nonsense to me.
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blah blah waffle blah usual nonsense. if driving is not a necessity for the continuation of the modern world how then would you suggest deliveries are made to shops, the post gets to the scottish highlands. fields are plowed, grain be taken to storage,

how would people travel to work, i'm rather interested to hear your non thought out replies to this. shooting is not a necessity, driving is i am not saying it is ok to break the law in the case of driving, i am saying shooting is absolutely surplus to requirement , it could be removed as a passtime entirely from our society and no difference would be experienced by 99% of the population. without driving our society could not function at all, so to apply your usual spurious non argument is exactly that a non argument.
 
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in reply to the Maltese idiot who says bird life Malta are overdoing it. i say osprey from Germany travelling to Africa, shot out of the sky in your country presumably not by a member of birdlife Malta
 
Adin 92 said:
Some of you just know the current affairs from the news about illegal hunting... None of you had to experience hunting a decade ago were hunters use to go out and shoot at anything for the taxidermy collection... how i already said illegal hunting is still rampant but deacreasing and results have shown rapidly more people respect nature and more awrness is done towards birds. Slowly things are advancing and heading in the right way

where else places like lebanon its the place that is really destroying birds populations were soldiers and police themselves kill hundreds of birds of ANY species

But no one will dare to take action!
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In fact, I'm optimistic about how things are changing worldwide for better as well. In this corner of the world we sadly also have poachers and many who just don't care, but things are being done and conditions for wildlife are slowly being improved. Cases like Lebanon cannot be an argument for giving up, quite the contrary, they have to move us to strive better conditions wherever we can. I'm in fact pretty confident Malta is a country where things are getting better and where most people don't feel proud of the news about migrating raptors being killed. I really don't think Malta feels that's the kind of tradition they want to preserve. :t:
 
every time shooting being banned is mentioned you come up with the same non argument about banning driving because someone might speed.
I'm still waiting for your reply to why shooting is a necessity to the continuation of modern life. or why fr example we could get rid of driving, if you can show either to be the case then you might have an argument but as i said it is a non argument used to justify the continuation of a completely unnecessary pastime. which through it's existence is causing bird populations throughout Europe to be pushed towards extinction.

banning shooting across Europe would do nothing to life in Europe, for anyone other than the shooters. i.e. the people who as a group are breaking the law and bringing these species close to extinction.
 
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