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Bean or White-fronted Goose or ?

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Old Saturday 28th March 2020, 05:10   #1
Otarujef
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Question Bean or White-fronted Goose or ?

Place: Lake Utonai, Tomakomai, Hokkaido, Japan
Date: March 21, 2020
Time: 12:30
Weather: Sunny, 3 C


Hi Everyone!
I did not get a clear shot of the underside of these geese.
They were approximately 900 meters / 3000 feet away with a 600 mm lens.
Any help to ID them correctly is well appreciated!
Jeff
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Old Saturday 28th March 2020, 05:25   #2
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additionals

BTW,
Here are additional photos shot 1 minute after the first set.
I THINK it is of the same group. If so Mature and Immature
Whooper Swans???
Thanks!
Jeff
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Old Saturday 28th March 2020, 05:47   #3
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All your pictures are of Whooper Swans. I can't see any geese in any of them.
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Old Saturday 28th March 2020, 06:02   #4
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Thumbs up Thanks!

Andrew,
Thank you greatly for your quick reply.
I am still learning body shapes.
I do have other clear photos
at the lake that day of white-fronted geese,
so that is why i asked.

what in the first set of photos notated whooper swans, if I can ask?

Best to you and yours there and be safe.
Jeff
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Last edited by Otarujef : Saturday 28th March 2020 at 06:03. Reason: spelling
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Old Saturday 28th March 2020, 06:13   #5
Andrew Whitehouse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otarujef View Post
Andrew,
Thank you greatly for your quick reply.
I am still learning body shapes.
I do have other clear photos
at the lake that day of white-fronted geese,
so that is why i asked.

what in the first set of photos notated whooper swans, if I can ask?

Best to you and yours there and be safe.
Jeff
They can be distinguished as Whooper Swans mainly on what can be seen of the bill pattern (though this isn't clear on all). Also they look proportionally long-necked. Having said that, on another look there may be a Tundra Swan with them (the middle of the left-hand birds in photo 1 and the lower bird in photo 2), as that bird looks noticeably smaller and shorter-necked.
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Old Saturday 28th March 2020, 06:18   #6
Otarujef
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Thanks Andrew!
I took 1500 photos that day,
so I will continue to sort thru them in more detail
to find better photos of that which you speak.
God Bless and Thanks again for your help!
Jeff
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Old Saturday 28th March 2020, 09:43   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Whitehouse View Post
They can be distinguished as Whooper Swans mainly on what can be seen of the bill pattern (though this isn't clear on all). Also they look proportionally long-necked. Having said that, on another look there may be a Tundra Swan with them (the middle of the left-hand birds in photo 1 and the lower bird in photo 2), as that bird looks noticeably smaller and shorter-necked.
Agree 5 Whoopers and a Bewick's [Tundra] Swan
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Old Saturday 28th March 2020, 10:13   #8
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i can't see any recognizable as tundra swan
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Old Saturday 28th March 2020, 10:51   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Whitehouse View Post
All your pictures are of Whooper Swans. ..
Agreed
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Old Saturday 28th March 2020, 11:46   #10
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Agree 5 Whoopers and a Bewick's [Tundra] Swan
All appear the same size to me. Only see Whoopers.
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Old Saturday 28th March 2020, 12:17   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeshna5 View Post
All appear the same size to me. Only see Whoopers.
I'm not certain about the Tundra Swan but the bottom bird in the second picture is clearly (measurably) smaller than the other two. The length from tail tip to bill tip of that bird on my screen is c.7.5cm and the other two birds are c.9.5cm. The width of the wing at the carpal joint is 1.7cm compared to 2.4cm on the bird above it. It also appears to be slightly closer than the two larger birds. The measured differences in length are probably about right for the differences between Whooper and Tundra (about 20% smaller).

The bill pattern is hard to discern, but I'm interested to know what people's explanations are for the substantial difference in size.
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Old Saturday 28th March 2020, 12:20   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeshna5 View Post
All appear the same size to me. Only see Whoopers.
Even the bird at the back of the group in the first photo. It is in front of the significantly larger bird behind, isn't it? And shorter necked.
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Old Saturday 28th March 2020, 13:18   #13
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sorry i scrolled up to post 2 only!
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Last edited by lou salomon : Saturday 28th March 2020 at 17:11. Reason: typo
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Old Saturday 28th March 2020, 13:21   #14
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I can see what Andrew means - I had originally put that down to perspective as I thought (wrongfully) the ‘shorter neck’ individual was flying behind its neighbour. The ‘smaller’ one could just be a female (males larger with longer thinner necks). Sorry not helpful ..
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Old Saturday 28th March 2020, 18:21   #15
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The front left bird in this pic has to be a Bewick's: https://www.birdforum.net/attachment...7&d=1585375748 - not only the very noticeable size difference, but it looks to have significantly less yellow on the bill to me.
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Old Saturday 28th March 2020, 20:46   #16
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Originally Posted by stevethehydra View Post
The front left bird in this pic has to be a Bewick's: https://www.birdforum.net/attachment...7&d=1585375748 - not only the very noticeable size difference, but it looks to have significantly less yellow on the bill to me.
Yep, that's the one.


Worth adding, pic 2 is just a crop of pic 1.
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Old Saturday 28th March 2020, 20:47   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otarujef View Post
BTW,
Here are additional photos shot 1 minute after the first set.
I THINK it is of the same group. If so Mature and Immature
Whooper Swans???
Thanks!
Jeff
Pics 3 & 4 are all Whoopers, yes.
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