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Old Thursday 6th February 2020, 08:20   #376
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It should be noted that Hawaii was included in the earlier editions. Presumably the creation of the ABA area caused it to be jettisoned in the first place.

Why bother including all of those Asian strays? Most birders are never going to visit Gambell or the Pribiloffs, so clearly a waste of space.

Hell why bother including Alaska at all? Most of that state, including the places with most of the specialities, are more difficult and expensive than most of Hawaii. A trip to Attu nowadays costs more than hitting up Oahu, Hawaii, Kauai, and Maui. And how well you do is ENTIRELY dependent on weather conditions. Wrong direction of wind and zero chance at Asian vagrants. At least I know the Nene and I'iwi are actually going to be present if I target them.
Because it is at least a contiguous part of the continent.

Regarding the extreme rarities, the European 'Collins' guide that we all use, has two pages dedicated to North American passerines. I suppose it depends on the frequncy of those rarities as to how useful they might be. We have a few places like the Scilly Isles and Shetland, where those pages could be useful but we're at a slightly smaller scale here.
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Old Thursday 6th February 2020, 08:23   #377
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Biogeographic studies actually have been consistently linking Hawaii to North America for some time now. That last big attempt to redefine biogeographic provinces recovered Hawaii as within North America. In fact, the only native birds of non NA origins are the monarchs (South Pacific) and the Honeycreepers (North Asian). Every other bird group that has made it to the island (and the sole native mammal) have North American ancestors.
Can you tell me on what basis, I'm genuinely curious?
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Old Thursday 6th February 2020, 11:55   #378
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Can you tell me on what basis, I'm genuinely curious?
https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...L-mLH1bI-F6IcR

The authors looked at distributions, phylogenetic relationships, and phylogenetic uniqueness of all terrestrial mammals, amphibians and birds (separately and together), at the global level. It's not specifically about Hawaii but obviously includes that island chain

It's actually a pretty cool paper, and some of the findings shouldn't be that big of a surprise (e.g. Madagascar being it's own province)
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Old Thursday 6th February 2020, 12:00   #379
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Because it is at least a contiguous part of the continent.

Regarding the extreme rarities, the European 'Collins' guide that we all use, has two pages dedicated to North American passerines. I suppose it depends on the frequncy of those rarities as to how useful they might be. We have a few places like the Scilly Isles and Shetland, where those pages could be useful but we're at a slightly smaller scale here.
From a logisitical perspective, the majority of the Alaskan specialities are on parts of the Alaska or islands that have no vehicle access, so they might as well be not contiguous.

I mean I just did a quick and dirty price check...for me, the cost of flying to Alaska and flying to Hawaii are about the same. So I think criticism of things about cost are really just arguments for doing a lower 48 list.
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Old Thursday 6th February 2020, 12:48   #380
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I mean I just did a quick and dirty price check...for me, the cost of flying to Alaska and flying to Hawaii are about the same. So I think criticism of things about cost are really just arguments for doing a lower 48 list.
I don't recall much (if any) mention of travel cost in the critiques. It remains (in my opinion) a stretch to characterize Hawaii as a part of North America. I have no such qualms about Alaska; its inclusion is self-evident.

The book will likely land on my shelf someday, but almost surely not in my field pouch.
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Old Thursday 6th February 2020, 21:00   #381
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To be fair, I am a die hard Nat Geo (for overall coverage) and Sibley (which is more useful for tough IDs). So I suspect it will also be a home reference.

Cost was an argument some made about Hawaii during the initial debates, as some listers felt it was not fair to add what was seen as an "expensive" go to destination for ABA listers.
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Old Friday 7th February 2020, 11:04   #382
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To be fair, I am a die hard Nat Geo (for overall coverage) and Sibley (which is more useful for tough IDs). So I suspect it will also be a home reference.

Cost was an argument some made about Hawaii during the initial debates, as some listers felt it was not fair to add what was seen as an "expensive" go to destination for ABA listers.
It's the same in the UK on a smaller scale, you can't compete for a year list unless you're prepared (able) to throw hundreds of £££££££ at a single bird on a remote island, necessitating charter flights and boats which are often 'held' for certain people in the event of something turning up.

Peterson wouldn't be my book of choice for a NA trip either, Sibley for me.
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Old Friday 7th February 2020, 21:27   #383
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So ABA's rather dubious decision to incorporate Hawaii within its definition of the ABA area is sufficient reason for the Peterson series to follow suit? For a relatively small subset of "NA year-listers" who might include Hawaii in their efforts? Making the guide less useful for those of us not birding Hawaii (superfluous coverage).

Haven't even found a reference to this presumably forthcoming title.
Lots of people will get it precisely because it now includes Hawaii. A few years ago when I was preparing for our Hawaii trip, it was such a book I was searching for. Though it turned out that the thin Hawaii-specific FGs were really just as convenient. Nevertheless, one needs a major North American FG anyway. It's NG for me not Sibley, however.
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Old Saturday 8th February 2020, 08:25   #384
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Lots of people will get it precisely because it now includes Hawaii. A few years ago when I was preparing for our Hawaii trip, it was such a book I was searching for. Though it turned out that the thin Hawaii-specific FGs were really just as convenient. Nevertheless, one needs a major North American FG anyway. It's NG for me not Sibley, however.
A the rate they're going, Lynx could bang out a Hawaiian guide double quick I reckon. I'd much prefer a dedicated Hawaiian gude, a good one that is.

All that would be required then on my part, would be a lottery win.
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Old Tuesday 11th February 2020, 19:47   #385
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B Narainsamy Ramen already published books on the Mascarenes and the Seychelles. His latest product will be a two volume book on the birds of the Indian Ocean. Scheduled for February 2020:

Birds of the Indian Ocean / Les Oiseaux de l'Ocean Indien

https://www.nhbs.com/birds-of-the-in...olume-set-book
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Old Sunday 1st March 2020, 19:04   #386
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I'm still awaiting the long gestating Steve Howell North American Bird Guide
So...still waiting for this. Does anyone know what happened with this? There have been some great Ian Lewington plates that I have seen floating around. I think Brian Sullivan is maybe the main author now?

It's just odd because Howell and co made a huge deal about this, with some articles talking about how they were going to do a non-taxonomic order in the guide and so on. And then...nothing
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Old Sunday 1st March 2020, 19:45   #387
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…………...
Birds of the Indian Ocean / Les Oiseaux de l'Ocean Indien

https://www.nhbs.com/birds-of-the-in...olume-set-book

From the preview pictures it looks like it is overly colorful. Must be in fashion these days, but far from realistic.
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Old Sunday 1st March 2020, 20:50   #388
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From the preview pictures it looks like it is overly colorful. Must be in fashion these days, but far from realistic.
The cover is awful!

There is already a Struik guide by Sinclair and Langrand which will probably remain the choice of birders, especially as this latest title is a photo guide.
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Old Monday 2nd March 2020, 05:37   #389
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So...still waiting for this. Does anyone know what happened with this? There have been some great Ian Lewington plates that I have seen floating around. I think Brian Sullivan is maybe the main author now?

It's just odd because Howell and co made a huge deal about this, with some articles talking about how they were going to do a non-taxonomic order in the guide and so on. And then...nothing
The project is very much alive and ongoing, I don't know anything about a publication date though.
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Old Monday 2nd March 2020, 09:23   #390
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So...still waiting for this. Does anyone know what happened with this? There have been some great Ian Lewington plates that I have seen floating around. I think Brian Sullivan is maybe the main author now?

It's just odd because Howell and co made a huge deal about this, with some articles talking about how they were going to do a non-taxonomic order in the guide and so on. And then...nothing
So how would that work?

One bugbear of World birders is that authors rarely use the same order in a book.
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Old Monday 2nd March 2020, 15:10   #391
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So how would that work?

One bugbear of World birders is that authors rarely use the same order in a book.
Similar to field guides from when I was young: grebes and loons next to ducks, flamingos near herons even though they are taxonomically closer to grebes, etc. There has been plenty of writing about that a few years ago.

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Old Monday 2nd March 2020, 16:12   #392
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Similar to field guides from when I was young: grebes and loons next to ducks, flamingos near herons even though they are taxonomically closer to grebes, etc. There has been plenty of writing about that a few years ago.

Niels
Yes, the basic idea is what Roger Peterson realized very early on that a field guide should place similarly looking species next to one another. So the first European "Peterson" had swifts and swallows on the same plate. Very convenient for all who have their priorities straight when it comes to trying to identify species.
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Old Monday 2nd March 2020, 16:42   #393
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There are a couple of threads about the proposed order here.

Although the irony of things are that if the book is delayed enough, we will reach the point where the ordinal relationships are largely settled and we won't be making massive reorganizations much anymore, rendering a lot of the complaints no longer relevant.
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Old Tuesday 3rd March 2020, 06:08   #394
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A post on FB today in a roundabout way intimated that Pearman/Areta’s guide to Argentina is going to press. The details of the original post don’t matter but does anyone else have more information or can anyone confirm?
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Old Wednesday 4th March 2020, 13:20   #395
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A google trawl didn't reveal anything new on the Argentina guide. (unfortunately). Perhaps someone from the publisher could weigh in? :-)
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Old Wednesday 4th March 2020, 17:58   #396
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The Argentina guide is scheduled for publication later this year as shown on the Bloomsbury website -https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/field-guide-to-the-birds-of-argentina-and-the-southwest-atlantic-9780713645798/
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Old Thursday 5th March 2020, 15:06   #397
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The Argentina guide is scheduled for publication later this year as shown on the Bloomsbury website -https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/field-guide-to-the-birds-of-argentina-and-the-southwest-atlantic-9780713645798/
In the case of this particular book, I'll believe it when I see it. Way too many postponements in the past.
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Old Tuesday 10th March 2020, 15:10   #398
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A post on FB today in a roundabout way intimated that Pearman/Areta’s guide to Argentina is going to press. The details of the original post don’t matter but does anyone else have more information or can anyone confirm?
Not quite gone to press, but being laid out at the moment.

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Old Tuesday 10th March 2020, 20:15   #399
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Not quite gone to press, but being laid out at the moment.

Jim
Any chance that this would mean a publishing date by the end of October 2020 is realistic?
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Old Wednesday 18th March 2020, 11:41   #400
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Birds of Brazil, Zimmer and Whittaker, looks to have been pushed further away with one of my suppliers suggesting a release date of Nov 2022.
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