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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Always used 10x but thinking about switching to 8x (2 Viewers)

Tks for clarifying, Gijs, I thought you had perhaps meant the Compact (looking at your website, it‘s clear you know Hartmann ...)

So let‘s leave the shooting, Kern, Hartmann and other deviations - do we now all agree that by using a 10x Conquest HD bino handheld we IN GENERAL lose more potential binocular efficiency than with the same shape, same weight, same dimensions 8x Conquest HD bino - individual physiological factors ignored for a moment?

Canip
 
Canip said:
Tks for clarifying, Gijs, I thought you had perhaps meant the Compact (looking at your website, it‘s clear you know Hartmann ...)

So let‘s leave the shooting, Kern, Hartmann and other deviations - do we now all agree that by using a 10x Conquest HD bino handheld we IN GENERAL lose more potential binocular efficiency than with the same shape, same weight, same dimensions 8x Conquest HD bino - individual physiological factors ignored for a moment?

Canip
Click to expand...



And with an 8x bino, due to the greater depth of field, IN GENERAL you need less re-focusing which can be very useful especially with a flying bird.

Lee
 
I've read the last 20-25 posts with interest and I am sure that for many users the increase in detail from 8 to 10x is not as great as it could be when hand held thanks to hand shake and other physiological factors. However, especially where I can brace my elbows against something, sometimes I just prefer (subjective as all hell, I know) the bigger bird-image that 10x shows me. At one of my viewing points where distances are often 1.5km or more I now use 12x because it's easier on my eyes to track a (slightly) bigger image than the pinprick you see through 7x or 8x. Every so often I have small passerines perch up close to me, or something like a kestrel fly by quite close - I don't often change targets to them, but the view you get of a close bird through 10x almost always wows me. Just this weekend I put my 10x on a goldfinch singing its head off in a tree next to the grim 1960s era tower block I was beside - a very common bird here in the UK, but even so it was a real pleasure to observe in such detail. Over Christmas I was able to put the same 10x on a crimson sunbird in the Singapore Botanic Gardens and the brief view I had from only a few yards away was astounding.

I'd agree though that for the type of dedicated birding/species hunting where it's vital to quickly find and identify birds, especially in difficult surroundings, something like a 8x42 or 8x32 with greater depth of field and a wide field of view would probably be the weapon of choice.
 
I've let this run but its now clear there are very few who've seen the light and taken to their local wood as instructed with a view to harvesting a circa 7ft hazel stick that when deployed correctly will, I assure you, steady a 15-power set of bins by a degree no off hand viewing experience even at 6-power can match.

Get out there and grab one even though the sap is well and truly risen!

LGM
 
I went down to the Hazel Wood and cut and peeled a hazel stick
And put thereon a heavy Bin and Yes, By Jove! It did the trick!:king:eek::D

Apologies to WB Yeats.
 
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LGM, Ceaser,
Before apologies to non-members how about explanations for us?
I take this to mean that you angle the stick towards you (assuming you are shorter than 7 feet)?
If so then in what way/s is this better than a monopod that is shorter than you and is angled by spreading your legs?
I have a 15x due soon, a monopod already, and prefer not to destroy Planet Earth (or, actually, to justify the purchase of the monopod).
Thanks!
 
Adhoc

I haven't been down to the woods today and scared the Teddy Bears from their picnic by wielding a billhook to cut a Hazel stick, but in the past I have taken advantage of thin growing tree wands to steady binos. I found I didn't need to put the binos on top of the support which is what I think you are assuming. I used my left hand to simultaneously grip the hazel wand and support the left optical tube and I guess this is what LGM has in mind. I have also done this occasionally with a photographic monopod while sitting down. The mopo was still extended but I didn't want to take the time to collapse it so I used it as described above.

So it is not necessary to angle a 7 foot hazel wand back towards you but the extra length over and above your own height would be useful on uneven ground.

This is not a technique I employ often but I can understand its attraction to folks keen on higher magnifications than my preferred 8x.

Lee
 
Thank you Lee for that very useful information. Yes you were right that I thought the binocular was placed "on top of" the stick.

I have already tried your method now with a small 10x and the monopod. (Note that my monopod must somehow come into this to save my investment.) It is promising.

Now I need to refine my pod-and-bin grip. It seems better with the pod upside down so I can hold the narrower among the nested tubes, and if this is in fact better the head will need some simple cap to turn it into a foot! Awaiting Lesson 2. Stick-Bin Grips: Fingering. Thanks gentlemen.
 
Troubador said:
Adhoc

I haven't been down to the woods today and scared the Teddy Bears from their picnic by wielding a billhook to cut a Hazel stick, but in the past I have taken advantage of thin growing tree wands to steady binos. I found I didn't need to put the binos on top of the support which is what I think you are assuming. I used my left hand to simultaneously grip the hazel wand and support the left optical tube and I guess this is what LGM has in mind. I have also done this occasionally with a photographic monopod while sitting down. The mopo was still extended but I didn't want to take the time to collapse it so I used it as described above.

So it is not necessary to angle a 7 foot hazel wand back towards you but the extra length over and above your own height would be useful on uneven ground.

This is not a technique I employ often but I can understand its attraction to folks keen on higher magnifications than my preferred 8x.

Lee
Click to expand...

100% correct.

As for destroying Planet Earth I guess that was a stab at humor?

LGM
 
Like the clothing line, much my taste, and nice Zeiss 8X30s, don't see them much anymore, now all one sees are the Hensoldt F-16 8X30 all over the B.y. Regarding the stick, I have an appropriate size in hickory.

Andy W.
 
LGM, Thanks for the info. by text and pic.

Ceasar, When you recover from Mystic Mode: Does "put thereon" mean that (unlike LGM and Lee) you place the binocular "on top of" the stick, which (unlike theirs) is a bit shorter than the user?

Anyone, Do you find that, like me, steadying (like this or otherwise) makes a significant difference with 10x but not 8x?

Thanks!
 
Last edited:
adhoc said:
LGM, Thanks for the info. by text and pic.

Ceasar, When you recover from Mystic Mode: Does "put thereon" mean that (unlike LGM and Lee) you place the binocular "on top of" the stick, which (unlike theirs) is a bit shorter than the user?

Anyone, Do you find that, like me, steadying (like this or otherwise) makes a significant difference with 10x but not 8x?

Thanks!
Click to expand...


Adhoc,

Yes, it does mean that I place the binocular on the top of the stick, but I'm sure you recognize this as "poetic license." ;)

Actually I use a Stoney Point, Polecat Monopod. It has a number of attachments, in particular a Binocular Rest attachment (#E-123) on which I rest the binocular along the bottom of it's center hinge. The Rest has a hinge on it that allows the binocular to be moved up and down while one hand is supporting the pole and tilting it as necessary.

http://danhberger.com/www.danhberger.com/Duraguard_Michaels_of_Oregon_files/StoneyPointCat.pdf

I'm not sure if these are still being made.

Bob
 
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Andy W, post 153,
What makes you conclude that a Zeiss 8x30 is shown in the picture referred to in post 152; as far as I know there is only a green armored 8x30 made by Zeiss and that is almost exactly identical to a Nikon 8x30 from a later date.
Gijs van Ginkel
 
It's worth reading Kimmo Kabsetz's post:



I first came across mention of the Finnstick when I posted that I was having tremor problems (minor I might add, but sufficient to spoil the view). Over a number of years the magnification I could cope with reduced so I asked for advice. Kimmo, amongst a number of others, kindly replied and suggested I use a Finnstick.

I did try it, but it took some getting use to and by the time I did I had found the solution. Image stabilization.

All of my binoculars are now image stabilized from the 8x to the 18x Canons and what a delight. As I have said in the past; when you press the image stabilization button and the image goes rock steady you realise what you have been missing. Up until then I had been using Nikon EDG's and SE's, so I know what a top class view is like. But being able to see appreciably more detail with the Canons there was no contest.

I am not trying to push Canon, who are the only manufacturer of birding image stabilized binoculars anyway, but the image stabilisation principle. While the Canons do have their faults, you learn to live with them in order to get the stable image.

There often seem to be posts on the forum on how to hold unstabilized binoculars to get the most stable position and therefore the best view. This makes me suspect that there are quite a few birdwatchers who, like me, would benefit from having a good look through Canons.

If you are one of the fortunate people who can hold a normal 18x binocular steady, just ignore this.

By the way, Kimmo uses the Canon 10x42L IS.

Stan
 
Zeiss

Gijs van Ginkel said:
Andy W, post 153,
What makes you conclude that a Zeiss 8x30 is shown in the picture referred to in post 152; as far as I know there is only a green armored 8x30 made by Zeiss and that is almost exactly identical to a Nikon 8x30 from a later date.
Gijs van Ginkel
Click to expand...

Gijs,

Just a guess, I don't see many of the Nikon 8X30s, I used to have both. Just a hunch.

Andy W.
 
Gijs van Ginkel said:
Andy W, post 153,
What makes you conclude that a Zeiss 8x30 is shown in the picture referred to in post 152; as far as I know there is only a green armored 8x30 made by Zeiss and that is almost exactly identical to a Nikon 8x30 from a later date.
Gijs van Ginkel
Click to expand...

The clue is in my signature.

All the best

LGM
 
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