haha! I won't join a bike forum then.. Maybe they should start jousting on there bicycles to end disputes!
Cheers Sancho, will keep you informed!
-
Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.
Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
Swarovski 8.5x42 EL Swarovision (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter foscobird
- Start date
haha! I won't join a bike forum then.. Maybe they should start jousting on there bicycles to end disputes!
Cheers Sancho, will keep you informed!
James Bean
Well-known member
Dennis, I can tell you're happy with the Swarovision's optical qualities, as your post #13 hints, but what about the dreaded 'focus glitch' reported by some others, suggesting it's not as smooth as it should be for such an expensive binocular. In this regard Nikon has the well deserved reputation for being the ultimate smoothie. Honestly now, is the Swaro in the same class as (say) a Nikon Premier, or does Nikon have the quality EDGe in this attribute?
Ingle1970
Well-known member
James
Wish you could try mine(12x) it has the smoothest i have ever come across in any Swarovski, its perfectly weighted in both directions also.
Its all down to the individual though at the end of the day, what feels right to one may not feel right to another, then again maybe its all down to sample variation and i got lucky, i've got a cherry! B
I don't think the Swarovski Swarovision is quite as smooth as the Nikon's but I actually like it better. It feels more precise to me and it gives me feedback as to how much I have moved it. I feel they designed it that way so it is more precise and for the reasons I stated. I think the Swarovision focus has to be more precise than the Nikon because it the binocular is so much sharper. The smallest movement of the focus wheel can actually sharpen the image when you already thought you had the sharpest image possible. Amazing resolution!
lilcrazy2
Well-known member
Brock
I would suspect that what Kammerdiner is alluding to, is something that I too have noticed in your myriad of posts. You seem to have this Chicken Little mentality where "the sky is always falling". In your posts on binos you have not tried, you seem to feel the need to focus on the negative aspects, rather than the positive, and generally based on others observations as opposed to your own.
Since most posters/reviewers seem to find these Swarovisions to be the best thing since sliced bread, why always focus on the possibility of a downside? I would think that merely linking to the thread, and letting the reader draw their own conclusions would be sufficient.
After reading that statement, I was kind of surprised because of the prolific number of posts on so many different binos.
About a month ago, another member erroneously chastized me with the following statement, to which he later apologized, saying he had me confused with another.
"quote -- "and I for one, only post on optics I have experience with".
I wonder who he had me confused with?
But, as always, pointing out other lesser priced options is always beneficial.
Tom
"maybe what I thought you would see, is not what you think you saw"
Last edited:
James Bean
Well-known member
Do I detect Freudian slips in these eulogies (or maybe ducking and weaving)?
Ingle 1970:"...it has the smoothest I have ever come across in any Swarovski".
Dennis:"I don't think the Swaro's as smooth as the Nikon's... but it feels more precise".
Would anyone care to offer a third opinion (especially on less smooth = more precise)?
Ingle 1970:"...it has the smoothest I have ever come across in any Swarovski".
Dennis:"I don't think the Swaro's as smooth as the Nikon's... but it feels more precise".
Would anyone care to offer a third opinion (especially on less smooth = more precise)?
RJM
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
The focuser knob on the Swarovisions I looked at the otherday felt plastic-like. On the 10x sample, there was also a very noticeable "bumpity bump" feeling when turning focusing the knob clockwise but not counterclockwise. Did not feel this in the 8.5x sample but the rolling ball effect was easy to see in that sample but was MIA in the 10x.
Kammerdiner
Well-known member
First let me apologise to Brock and all for any lack of civility on my part. It was unintentional but also uncalled for. Birdforum is a classy joint, for the most part. I meant no disrespect.
Now for the SV focus. It's not as smooth as it could be, but I suspect Swaro did it on purpose. As Dennis said, the sharpness is impressive and getting both barrels to focus equally requires close tolerances. Close tolerance means tight focus, at least initially. I have a number of bins that focus better in one direction than the other, including the Zeiss FL. The Zeiss is smoother, but I've got to focus from the same direction every time if I want the absolute best view. I think it has to do with having, a) top notch optics, and b) two separate focus trains. You've got to keep them synchronized, especially for old fogeys like me whose accomodation appears to be about zilch (my optometrist loves me because I can nail the exam in ten seconds flat). The SV focuses the same in either direction and in the field that's a nice feature.
It's like cars in a way, whose piston rings and bearings are designed to "break in" during the first thousand miles or so. I've only had the SV for three months but it appears to be getting smoother already.
Mark
That pretty says what I was trying to say. The initial tightness is so when it does break in it will not have too much slop. I still prefer it over the Nikon because there is a little feedback coming from the focus wheel and it lets me know precisely how much I moved it. It is more precise like a micrometer than the Nikon. I tend to hit the correct focus quicker with the Swarovision, whereas, with the Nikon I will often times pass prime focus and have to back up. The focus you desribe as plasticky is actually made of two materials so it has good feel for glove use while still being strong and durable. The Swarovision's are not perfect but they are the best binoculars you can buy right now.
Last edited:
RJM
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
Many optical experts will say passing thru focus and the backing up is the correct method to focus a binocular.
brocknroller
porromaniac
Apology accepted. Let's agree to disagree some more - civilly!
Glad to hear your SV focuses the same in both directions if by that you mean smoothly, because I wouldn't count on a "breaking-in period" for it to become smoother. I tried a 2001 EL last year, which should have had plenty of time to "break in" but it still focused significantly more stiffly in one direction than the other. Same with a 2009 8x30 SLCNeu I tried, though not as stiffly ("I don't have any problem with my 8x30 SLC's focuser" - just beating Steve to the punch
. After spending two weeks with both bins, my index finger was "plum wore out" (to borrow a Texan phrase), mostly from the EL since it has an EP-end focuser. My ring fingers were also worn out from the 8x30's objective end focuser, because I'm not used to turning motion with my ring fingers, just tapping on the keyboard.
I use my index fingers for typing and "mousing" all day long, and my index fingers' tendons are tight as a result ("trigger finger"). I do a lot of close-in birding, which requires a lot of focusing, so a front-end focuser that turns smoothly in both directions is a "must".
I've read numerous posts and some reviews about Swaro focusers focusing harder in one direction than the other (and posted links to some of those on another thread when someone challenged me on that), and I recently corresponded with the owner of a 2009 10x42 SLCNeu, who said the same thing about his bin turning harder in one direction. He's a hunter and doesn't focus close or change focus as often as most birders do, so the extra stiffness in one direction doesn't bother him.
Somebody gave an explanation or perhaps a speculation about the cause of this difference in focusing tension on a BF thread a while back, I think it had something to do with pushing the air inside the tubes with the internal focus lens. But Nikons have internal focusers too, so I'm not sure how that explains the difference in focusing tension in one direction.
A similar problem applies to Dennis' explanation, which implies that the EDG focuses with less precision than the SV EL. Having tried an EDG, I can say assuredly that the focuser turned "smooth as butter" in both directions to pinpoint sharpness" (literally on stars).
If you can turn the focuser a bit more on the SV EL and get an already sharp image even sharper, that only shows that the binoculars have good depth of field and/or have a focuser that isn't overly fast. You can't do that with the 8x32 HG, and it's not because the image isn't sharp or that the barrel tolerances are inferior. The 8x32 HG focuses from cf to infinity in less than 1/2 turn. Just a tiny nudge of the focuser and the object in front or back of your target is in focus or out of focus, depending on the direction you turn the focuser.
In any case, it's a "mute" point for me (to borrow another "Ringoism" from Steve). I had an interest in the 7x42 SLCneu, so the focuser was a concern at one point, but now that the lighter weight, open bridge 7x42 EDG I is selling for the same price as the heavier, non-ED glass 7x42 Swaro, my interest in this issue is more academic than practical.
Brock
Last edited:
Apology accepted. Let's agree to disagree some more - civilly!
Glad to hear your SV focuses the same in both directions if by that you mean smoothly, because I wouldn't count on a "breaking-in period" for it to become smoother. I tried a 2001 EL last year, which should have had plenty of time to "break in" but it still focused significantly more stiffly in one direction than the other. Same with a 2009 8x30 SLCNeu I tried, though not as stiffly ("I don't have any problem with my 8x30 SLC's focuser" - just beating Steve to the punch
After spending two weeks with both bins, my index finger was "plum wore out" (to borrow a Texan phrase), mostly from the EL since it has an EP-end focuser. My ring fingers were also worn out from the 8x30's objective end focuser, because I'm not used to turning motion with my ring fingers, just tapping on the keyboard.
I use my index fingers for typing and "mousing" all day long, and my index fingers' tendons are tight as a result ("trigger finger"). I do a lot of close-in birding, which requires a lot of focusing, so a front-end focuser that turns smoothly in both directions is a "must".
I've read numerous posts and some reviews about Swaro focusers focusing harder in one direction than the other (and posted links to some of those on another thread when someone challenged me on that), and I recently corresponded with the owner of a 2009 10x42 SLCNeu, who said the same thing about his bin turning harder in one direction. He's a hunter and doesn't focus close or change focus as often as most birders do, so the extra stiffness in one direction doesn't bother him.
Somebody gave an explanation or perhaps a speculation about the cause of this difference in focusing tension on a BF thread a while back, I think it had something to do with pushing the air inside the tubes with the internal focus lens. But Nikons have internal focusers too, so I'm not sure how that explains the difference in focusing tension in one direction.
A similar problem applies to Dennis' explanation, which implies that the EDG focuses with less precision than the SV EL. Having tried an EDG, I can say assuredly that the focuser turned "smooth as butter" in both directions to pinpoint sharpness" (literally on stars).
If you can turn the focuser a bit more on the SV EL and get an already sharp image even sharper, that only shows that the binoculars have good depth of field and/or have a focuser that isn't overly fast. You can't do that with the 8x32 HG, and it's not because the image isn't sharp or that the barrel tolerances are inferior. The 8x32 HG focuses from cf to infinity in less than 1/2 turn. Just a tiny nudge of the focuser and the object in front or back of your target is in focus or out of focus, depending on the direction you turn the focuser.
In any case, it's a "mute" point for me (to borrow another "Ringoism" from Steve). I had an interest in the 7x42 SLCneu, so the focuser was a concern at one point, but now that the lighter weight, open bridge 7x42 EDG I is selling for the same price as the heavier, non-ED glass 7x42 Swaro, my interest in this issue is more academic than practical.
Brock
My feelings are I still prefer the Swarovision focus over the Nikon EDG's and especially the diopter setting is really nice on the Swarovision. It just feels like the Swarovision focus wheel is higher quality when you turn it and for my uses I prefer the focus speed. The whole Swarovision binocular also looks and feels higher quality that the Nikon EDG. Just the materials used and build quality make it appear so. To me the Nikon EDG doesn't look like the $1800.00 binocular it is. It's also things like how the objective covers and rain covers look and work. Just superior in the Swarovision. It is like they are custom fit and work perfectly. Just my feelings.
Last edited:
Ingle1970
Well-known member
Dennis
Get yourself the new winged eye-cup and rainguard, they're good, very good :-O
Do they really help? Where did you get them from?
Ingle1970
Well-known member
They are very comfortable, just ordered them from my dealer, about £19 i think.
Is this it? They look like they stretch to fit all eyecup sizes. Not much info given on them but they are a better buy than the screw in eye cups.
http://www.eagleoptics.com/binocula...yecup-rainguard-set-for-el-and-slc-binoculars
The horned eye cups of the EDG's fit over the eyecups of the binocular and come as a standard accessory with the binocular and they are excellent. They are rather heavy rubber and are very comfortable and they have small ocular covers which fit inside them to protect the glass.
Bob
http://www.eagleoptics.com/binocula...yecup-rainguard-set-for-el-and-slc-binoculars
The horned eye cups of the EDG's fit over the eyecups of the binocular and come as a standard accessory with the binocular and they are excellent. They are rather heavy rubber and are very comfortable and they have small ocular covers which fit inside them to protect the glass.
Bob
Last edited:
brocknroller
porromaniac
I didn't mention that the other reason my index finger "plum wore out" with the EL was that it had the old "slow poke" focuser, which went from cf to infinity about as fast as a Geo Metro goes from 0-60 mph.
Swaro corrected that issue before the SV EL. The EDG I focuser I tried was precise but a bit too fast for me, particularly in the 10x models where you have less DOF. Maybe on the 7x42 model it would work fine.
However, I didn't have to overshoot and come back to achieve best focus with the EDG like i did with the 8x32 HG, which I didn't realize that many optical experts say is the best method for focusing, according to Rick. I personally found that focusing method cumbersome; plus, what's the point of having a fast focuser if you can get to your target quickly but then have to back track and refocus?
A focuser with a bit more tension than the EDG but that turned smoothly and evenly in both directions would be my preference.
As far as the SV EL's focuser being "classier" than the EDG's, I couldn't say but obviously there's a difference of opinions about that with one member thinking it is "custom fit and work perfectly" and another saying it "felt plastic-like" and went ""bumpity bump" in one direction.
Not sure if these different observations of the same series of bins is due to sample variation or differences in the posters' perceptions. Some people (like me) sweat the small stuff, some focus on the big picture and ignore the niggling details. Others become infatuated with their new love and idealize their objet du désir.
In any case, price-wise, the EDG I can't be beat for premium class optics even though I'm not a fan of the pop-out focuser on any brand, I like the SCLNeu's push and turn set up the best. No fuss, no muss.
Brock
Swaro corrected that issue before the SV EL. The EDG I focuser I tried was precise but a bit too fast for me, particularly in the 10x models where you have less DOF. Maybe on the 7x42 model it would work fine.
However, I didn't have to overshoot and come back to achieve best focus with the EDG like i did with the 8x32 HG, which I didn't realize that many optical experts say is the best method for focusing, according to Rick. I personally found that focusing method cumbersome; plus, what's the point of having a fast focuser if you can get to your target quickly but then have to back track and refocus?
A focuser with a bit more tension than the EDG but that turned smoothly and evenly in both directions would be my preference.
As far as the SV EL's focuser being "classier" than the EDG's, I couldn't say but obviously there's a difference of opinions about that with one member thinking it is "custom fit and work perfectly" and another saying it "felt plastic-like" and went ""bumpity bump" in one direction.
Not sure if these different observations of the same series of bins is due to sample variation or differences in the posters' perceptions. Some people (like me) sweat the small stuff, some focus on the big picture and ignore the niggling details. Others become infatuated with their new love and idealize their objet du désir.
In any case, price-wise, the EDG I can't be beat for premium class optics even though I'm not a fan of the pop-out focuser on any brand, I like the SCLNeu's push and turn set up the best. No fuss, no muss.
Brock
Last edited:
Bob A (SD)
Well-known member
Bob,
I have had the screw in style winged eyecups on my SLC since 2007. SONA provided me with a 363-479A rainguard as the one supplied with the bins wouldn't work with winged eyecups. Recently the strap loop on that guard broke and SONO sent me this new kit. First the rainguard is top notch. Fits very well securely on top of the winged eyecups and has large heavy duty guides for straps that should stand the test of time. The stretch to fit winged eyecups are another matter. Yeah they fit and work okay. But they're a bit more difficult to adjust alignment than the more expensive screw ons. And there is no advantage say when using the snap shot adapter.... still have to remove 'em just like the screw ons. I rather think the stretching will fatigue them in time too. Why SONO doesn't market the rainguard and stretch fit wings individually is beyond me. Those of us who have/prefer the old style screw on have to buy the kit to get the guard. And if my prediction is true that the guard will outlast the stretch fit wings, that means folks have to buy the whole kit just to replace the wings. Duh????
I'll stay with the #44019 643-0294 winged eyecups and 663-952A improved rainguard (over the old discontinued 363-479A) from the #44016 kit for my 7x42 SLC Bs :t:
As an aside the Nikon EDG horned eyecup approach seems to be very well designed.
Last edited:
Thanks Bob,
I've never owned a Swarovski and now that the 8 x 30 SLC's are being discounted I decided to get one. I also got with them $20.00 off of a one time purchase of an accessory and I decided to buy the winged eye cups. I called SONA and asked if I could purchase the new stretch model with the rainguard and was told that they weren't included in the offer. So I got the screw on wing cups and saved $20.00 on them. I like them OK but I have no rainguard for them. They aren't quite as efficient or comfortable as the Horned Eye Cups on my 10 x 32 EDG but I'm not complaining.
I don't think the 8 x 30 SLC is quite as good optically as my old Nikon 8 x 32 LX L; there is a bit of veiling glare that the Nikon controls better, the eye relief is about 2mm shorter and the outer edges on the Nikon are better but I like it nevertheless. It's colors are true; it's contrast is excellent as is it's sharpness and it is very comfortable in the hand and easy to use once you get used to the front location of the focus knob. I purposely have not mentioned CA because I am not susceptible to it but there seems to be a bit more on the SLC when I look for it on horizontal and vertical edges and along mountain ridges, especially when it is off axis, and it has more pincushion distortion than the Nikon. (I really should say "pincushioning" because there is no distortion to be seen at all in the views of either binocular.)
You don't often find Swarovski's offered at discount prices and if anyone has ever wanted an excellent lightweight 8 x 30 for under $900.00 they are now available in many places.
Bob,
Last edited:
mooreorless
Well-known member
Bob I did the same as you, used the $20 off and bought the winged eyecups for my Swaro 8x30SLC and liked them better than the original. Like you my rainguard doesn't work with the winged eyecups. Try the one handed focusing with this binocular. I am not going to say what I thought of the differences between the Swaro and the 8x32LX.
Similar threads
