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Affordable Japanese binoculars (1 Viewer)

black crow said:
On this forum I've learned hedging as a survival tactic. It helps a lot when you're not very sure of what you're talking about. It's a skill to craft a post that appears to be authoritative and knowledgeable when in reality you're a perpetual newb. :eat:
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I like that too, very nicely done BC! I'll have to learn that when I'm trying to hop through the hedges here! Often I just get stuck, like Poo though.

Hey, I picked up on the humor this time, Bill!

Yes, the EII's great. If you add $64 to your budget, you can get a leftover model Tract Toric in 10x42. Of course, it's been superceded by the next generation TT, which makes it obsolete now! ; ) Don't think I'll go throwing mine away though even so. Very nice.
 
black crow said:
I have a question about the Nikon EII. Do they sell for less in Japan? Turns out I know some people living in Tokyo and I was thinking maybe they could buy them there and bring them over as they come here about 4 times a year.
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On Amazon Japan, they are the equivalent of $422, which is a bit less than Amazon USA, but not by much.

Count me as another lover of the Nikon 8x30 EII. It's a great bin with really nice optics. For all types of birding, I don't find it such a great choice due to poor "hang" and slow focus (and for me, the eye relief is a bit short with glasses--I can manage with my close-fitting set, but it isn't ideal). For distance work, or for mid-range forest birding, it is hard to beat. The world would be a better place if the innumerable models of budget roofs were replaced by these porros. I used to imagine that scenario a lot when I regularly lead field trips for beginning birders (who were almost always trying to use crappy bins) and when these were available in the USA for under $250 (Which they were, incidentally, for several years, yet attracted essentially no interest, even from binocular aficionados).

--AP
 
That tells me how subjective binocular owners are as to what signifies a "good" binocular. This is actually good news imo because realizing this one learns to trust their own values of quality even if they are in a minority opinion.
 
black crow said:
That tells me how subjective binocular owners are as to what signifies a "good" binocular. This is actually good news imo because realizing this one learns to trust their own values of quality even if they are in a minority opinion.
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Hi BC,

Would you please say what that was ("That") to make you see this? Sure, it's all subjective, other than the optic reports that are scientific. Your eyes are what matter the most, and there's only one way to do it. Buy and try.
 
this

I used to imagine that scenario a lot when I regularly lead field trips for beginning birders (who were almost always trying to use crappy bins) and when these were available in the USA for under $250 (Which they were, incidentally, for several years, yet attracted essentially no interest, even from binocular aficionados).
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As I read this there was a bias against something that was optically superior. If optical quality was a primary criteria in choosing a particular optic then they would have gotten a lot more attention from those looking for something optically superior. If there is a general claim that a certain binocular is superior that doesn't mean you can't find something just as good for a lot less. Take the Sightron Blue Sky for example. When Frank first posted about them, if I remember correctly, he met some resistance to his claims. Yet they have turned out to be an example of amazingly good optics at a fraction of alpha prices.
 
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Well, sometimes popularity goes against science in regards to optical quality, and only because of the old fashioned appearance of the Porro binoculars that were around for ages, so naturally people were looking for something new, and looked to the roof prism binoculars for it. It doesn't mean they knew how the EII's performed; it probably often times came from ignorance of not trying the old fashioned Porros in favor of the newer designs in roofs that were now the fashion to buy and to be seen with. So their bias might have only been based on popularity, and not function.

Many will still tell you that the EII's can hold their own and more comparing them to much more expensive roofs, but it's a choice for sure. And yes, the Sightron BSII's are great, but they are no EII's either. I have and enjoy both, but I hold the EII's higher in optical performance higher than the BSII's. Your eyes might tell you different, but I think most would think otherwise if you would compare them. On the other hand, I have taken my BSII's out in the woods far more than the EII's, just because I don't have to worry about them getting wet, or damaged. They are rough and ready, and far less in price, so I am inclined to just grab and go with them!

If you see no need to upgrade what you have, then there IS no need. Be happy, and enjoy. Thanks for clearing that up what you meant before-it's all subjective, for sure.
 
Well that's what I was trying to say. It was bias that prevented them from checking them out so the optical quality became moot. They raved that something was about the best thing going all the while ignoring a real solid contender. Or something like that lol. So someone considering them the expert would think that they knew what the best binoculars were optically when they had been in fact ignoring that great contender.

I never meant to say the Bluesky was in the same league with the 8x30. I was using it as an example of possible bias against a certain binocular that really had the value of binoculars far above its price point. Or something like that lol.
 
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They sure look the same. For something close to $170 they are a mighty fine optic IMO. I use mine at least once a week these days. They do look a little funny to my eye but they are by far the best binocular I have to use with one hand.
 
black crow said:
Has anyone compared the optics head to head with the Sightron? Is it really the same glass?
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There has been discussion here in the past about similarity, for instance here about a year ago. I didn't find a direct comparison in a quick search. The consensus is that both are "made" in the Philippines to a similar physical and mechanical spec but that coatings and baffling may be different. The rubber coating is noticeably different. At least on Amazon the Fuji is listed as having dielectric coatings, while the Sightrons do not advertise this. From what I have read Sightron uses silver coatings instead. Reviews of both are good, particularly with respect to on axis contrast and relatively wide sweet spot. At this price point sample to sample variation is more likely.

I have the Sightron and for the $175 I paid it is an excellent value. I use it regularly and for me it is very comfortable. I have better binoculars, but they are almost triple the price. When I do careful comparisons side by side I can see the optical differences between $200 glass and $500-$1,000 glass. But when I pick up the $200 glass in the field, I notice the mechanics and ergonomics differences more than any optical issues. The Sightrons are so nice ergonomically, that I'm not very distracted by the mechanical issues that separate it from the more expensive binoculars. If the Fuji is as good, $139 is a very good price.

Alan
 
When I do careful comparisons side by side I can see the optical differences between $200 glass and $500-$1,000 glass. But when I pick up the $200 glass in the field, I notice the mechanics and ergonomics differences more than any optical issues.
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Exactly. This is why I've gone back to the $200 glass for the most part. I'm not impressed with the mid range binoculars I've looked at from a value standpoint. With mid cost bins I'm doing my best, straining, to see that tiny optical difference I just paid an extra $2-300 for and then I feel kind of silly that I spent the money. I walk out the door, take a look at a bird and my $200 binocular just became my favorite optic again. I have to talk myself into believing I made a good choice buying that $400 binocular.

I'll continue to find great $200 optics hopefully and if I have to have something better I'll have to add a lot more money to the pot. The only one I've seen that would make me want to spend more money is the Kowa Genesis 8x33 for more than just optical reasons. I've never looked through a more comfortable binocular that seems impervious to incorrect eye positioning and blackout. Optically it's wonderful. See my current thread on Eye Cups. I have no idea why they seem to be the only ones to figure it out.
 
black crow said:
Exactly. This is why I've gone back to the $200 glass for the most part. I'm not impressed with the mid range binoculars I've looked at from a value standpoint. With mid cost bins I'm doing my best, straining, to see that tiny optical difference I just paid an extra $2-300 for and then I feel kind of silly that I spent the money. I walk out the door, take a look at a bird and my $200 binocular just became my favorite optic again. I have to talk myself into believing I made a good choice buying that $400 binocular.

I'll continue to find great $200 optics hopefully and if I have to have something better I'll have to add a lot more money to the pot. The only one I've seen that would make me want to spend more money is the Kowa Genesis 8x33 for more than just optical reasons. I've never looked through a more comfortable binocular that seems impervious to incorrect eye positioning and blackout. Optically it's wonderful. See my current thread on Eye Cups. I have no idea why they seem to be the only ones to figure it out.
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I definitely prefer my $500 8x30 Maven to the Sightron 8x32, so I don't regret spending the additional money. I prefer the feel, the mechanical precision, the quicker focus, and it is more compact. Yet it would be preposterous to say that I see much more in the Maven. It would take much more training of my eyes and brain before the Sightron would in any way limit my birding (if it ever did). I am paying some premium for features that I enjoy, and I've convinced myself that the view is better, but I would never claim that the improvements in optics are in any way decisive.

Alan
 
I get that. Paying for things other than optical might make one willing to pay more. I like the Meopro focuser better than any of my other binoculars, but I'm not sure it was worth the extra $250 to get it lol.
 
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