Holiday mothing (1 Viewer)

Andrew S · Aug 10, 2004

I am off to Northumberland tomorrow for a brief camping trip (probably near the coast but not decided yet!), and thought it would be inappropriate to go to the land of Harry and not try a bit of mothing.

Not taking the trap though, as suspect the MV light would not be popular with fellow tenters even if there was an electricity source. So I was considering taking a sheet, putting it on the ground and putting my camping gas lantern on it, and seeing what turned up.

Anyone any experience of this?

Happily it looks like the weather will be nice and overcast.

And, Harry, if you're out there today, is there a must-see site for day-time moths/butterflies/other insects? My GF is coming too, so there may not be much time for dedicated entomological activity, as I think it is fair to say her interest is a little less than mine, but I am taking my net.

Thanks all.

Andrew

CJW · Aug 10, 2004

I think getting a mature Ealiensis on your list should be your #1 priority Andrew!

Andrew S · Aug 10, 2004

Always approach the older Ealiensis with caution, especially if it has been drinking, when there is a danger of misleading IDs!

CJW · Aug 10, 2004

It doesn't need drink!

harry eales · Aug 10, 2004

Andrew S said:
I am off to Northumberland tomorrow for a brief camping trip (probably near the coast but not decided yet!), and thought it would be inappropriate to go to the land of Harry and not try a bit of mothing.

Not taking the trap though, as suspect the MV light would not be popular with fellow tenters even if there was an electricity source. So I was considering taking a sheet, putting it on the ground and putting my camping gas lantern on it, and seeing what turned up.

Anyone any experience of this?

Happily it looks like the weather will be nice and overcast.

And, Harry, if you're out there today, is there a must-see site for day-time moths/butterflies/other insects? My GF is coming too, so there may not be much time for dedicated entomological activity, as I think it is fair to say her interest is a little less than mine, but I am taking my net.

Thanks all.

Andrew

Hello Andrew,
With the way the weather is you'll be lucky to get out at all. However, all the coastal Sand dune systems are worth visiting when mothing. By day Ross Links is well worth a visit, although you'll have to leave your car in Ross Village and walk the last mile to the site. Also the Holy Island NNR has a great butterfly and moth population. Try looking on the heads of Ragwort, it's always amazed me how many nocturnal moths nectar on them during the day

You don't say exactly where you are in the County and there is 70 miles of magnificent coastline, but almost anywhere away from the crowds should give you good results. There are so many places that are good by day and night it's difficult to give a list.

If you get to Holy Island (Lindisfarne) check the tide crossing times there's dozens of people that can testify how fast the tide comes in, especially those who thought they could make it, and didn't. Recovering your vehicle after it has been swept off the causeway is also expensive, and they don't tend to work after being submerged in the sea for several hours. lol.

Seriously though, Northumberland is a great place for a naturalist to be. 3000 square miles of countryside with only one city and four small country towns.

Harry.

harry eales · Aug 10, 2004

Chris (CJW) wrote.
I think getting a mature Ealiensis on your list should be your #1 priority Andrew!

AndrewS wrote.
Always approach the older Ealiensis with caution, especially if it has been drinking, when there is a danger of misleading IDs!

Chris wrote
It doesn't need drink!

Droll gentlemen, very droll.

He who never makes mistakes, never makes anything. I freely admit I make my share of errors.

As to the references to alcohol, well it preserves specimens so a liberal intake may preserve me. lol.

Harry

The Drinker · Aug 10, 2004

harry eales said:
He who never makes mistakes, never makes anything. I freely admit I make my share of errors.
Harry

Well said Harry!
It would be interesting to get the Office for National Statistics to review the many threads and provide a percentage based positive ID success. I've lost count of the number of times I've corrected CJW (in many areas!!!!!!)
(Oh yes - I get the odd one wrong myself every now and again!

) LOL

Andrew S · Aug 10, 2004

Cheers Harry! Will let you know how I get on...

Andrew

harry eales · Aug 10, 2004

The Drinker
...I do it with the light on.

Interesting, mmmm. I do some stick dressing and I do it with a horn. lol.

Harry

harry eales · Aug 10, 2004

Andrew S said:
Cheers Harry! Will let you know how I get on...

Andrew

No disrespect Andrew,
But if I had a girlfriend in a tent, by day or at night, mothing would not be the first thing I had in mind, lol.
Best of luck, with your mothing that is. lol.

Harry

Andrew S · Aug 16, 2004

harry eales said:
No disrespect Andrew,
But if I had a girlfriend in a tent, by day or at night, mothing would not be the first thing I had in mind, lol.
Best of luck, with your mothing that is. lol.

Harry

Well I did say "there may not be much time for dedicated entomological activity"...

Andrew S · Aug 16, 2004

Well, the answer to my original query about putting the gas camping lamp out on a sheet is that I got four Agriphila tristella in about half an hour. Did also see a larger moth fly over, oblivious to the light. So didn't try that again (and would have got pretty wet had I done it the next night...).

So I stuck to day-time mothing. Got some nectaring on flowers, which I may post later, but also found some carpet-types on tree trunks. First started looking on a very rainy day when walking in Harthope Valley (near Wooler) in a smallish wood of pine trees, and had moderate success. Saw the moths in the first three photos below, and some others too flighty to photograph, and one noctuid too high to photograph. (Apologies for pic quality here - light was very low and was having problems getting the flash not to overexpose the moths). Third one was on the underside of a sycamore bough, but the others were on pine trunks.

But after this, thinking daytime mothing was just a matter of looking at tree trunks, I had very little luck. In particular, a little later in the day further down the valley I searched several birch, alder and willow trees extensively in similar weather conditions, but didn't find anything. For the rest of the holiday the only other success I had with this technique was the fourth picture, found on a hazel tree at the Vindolanda Roman fort in Hadrian's Wall country (this one was a bit too high up on the tree to photograph easily).

Anyone any thoughts on this?

My views on the moths' ids can be seen by hovering on the photos, but contrary views always welcome.

Andrew

Andrew S · Aug 17, 2004

Northumberland trip: Druridge Bay

Druridge Bay was our first real stop after driving up. The dunes there were lovely, and even though a sea fog was coming in it was relatively warm and there were plenty of butterflies and moths.

I wandered around happily taking pics with my Coolpix 4500 - can be quite frustrating as you need to get fairly close to get a good shot on the macro setting, but can be done with a bit of stealth. (I used to think the best way to go about this was with a long lens on an SLR, so you don't need to approach as close, but you do need good light to do it this way if you haven't got IS. GF was doing this with her Canon EOS 300d/300mm zoom, haven't seen the results properly yet but think a lot were blurry because of the light - think she is going to look at IS lenses at the Birdfair at the weekend.)

Following Harry's tip I was looking for moths nectaring on the flowers, and got a few. Also there were quite a few moths disturbed as I walked around, which I think were mainly Shaded Broad-bar, often quite faded. I got some pics of them with open wings, but mainly they were in a closed wing pose - see first pic - I am assuming these were all Shaded Broad-bar, but I didn't get a good look at all the wing uppersides, so there could be something else hiding in there... Is this a usual pose for SBB?

Also appeared to be plenty of Yellow Shell, especially on the rosebay willowherb, but these were a bit browner than the ones I've seen down south.

I got a moth new to me on some teasel - I haven't checked this exhaustively yet, but my suspicion is that it is Six-striped Rustic - am I right?

Well, that'll do for the moment, more to follow.

Angus T · Aug 17, 2004

Yes for July Highflyer. bar one all mine are were green.
Yes for DMC
Yes for Flame C
Not familiar with 4th one so won't confirm
and Yes for 6 Striped.

harry eales · Aug 17, 2004

Angus T said:
Yes for July Highflyer. bar one all mine are were green.
Yes for DMC
Yes for Flame C
Not familiar with 4th one so won't confirm
and Yes for 6 Striped.

Hello Andrew,
I agree with Angus's ID's but picture no 4 has me puzzled as well. It's a pity that you haven't a more focused shot of it. I suspect it may be a variant but of what, I'm not at all certain. I'll work on it.

Harry

harry eales · Aug 17, 2004

Hello Andrew,
Reference moth picture 4. It's possible it may be a variant of the Manchester Treble Bar. How big was this insect in comparison with the other 'carpets' you photographed?

The Manchester TB is a very common moth along the Roman Wall sites wherever there are bogs, where they can occur in their hundreds, they are very easily disturbed by day. It is still on the wing and although I have only come across one other specimen at rest on a tree, that doesn't mean to say it doesn't happen more frequently. If you have a grid reference for this insect that may help as well, as I have all the bogs of Northumberland mapped in detail as the result of my Large Heath Surveys in this county.

Harry

Andrew S · Aug 17, 2004

Harry

No reliable measure of size, but I would say smallish. Grid reference would be about NY775665 - just near the entrance to Vindolanda.

The photo may show more contrast than the moth due to attempts to recover some detail from the overexposure.

Must say I hadn't considered Manchester Treble-bar - felt fairly comfortable with Twin-spot Carpet - do you think that's dubious?

Andrew

harry eales · Aug 17, 2004

Andrew S said:
Harry

No reliable measure of size, but I would say smallish. Grid reference would be about NY775665 - just near the entrance to Vindolanda.

The photo may show more contrast than the moth due to attempts to recover some detail from the overexposure.

Must say I hadn't considered Manchester Treble-bar - felt fairly comfortable with Twin-spot Carpet - do you think that's dubious?

Andrew

Hello Andrew,
From the grid reference you were within 1km of three different bogs, but I have to say that it's not often a MTB is seen that far away from its habitat.

Twin spot carpet is a possibility but I have never seen a specimen with those dark markings along the costa of the forewing. Certainly the resting pose is more like the TSC than the MTB.

Unless someone can come up with a better ID I suppose you'll have to relegate it to a file marked 'Carpets Agg'. A pity really as it an interesting insect.

That is one good reason for obtaining a specimen rather than just a photograph. With the specimen you can always get a positive ID as long as the specimen is complete. With a photograph it's not always possible to do so, even if the picture is first class.

I hope you enjoyed the wonderful countryside in Northumberland.

Harry.

Richard H · Aug 17, 2004

harry eales said:
Hello Andrew,

Unless someone can come up with a better ID I suppose you'll have to relegate it to a file marked 'Carpets Agg'. A pity really as it an interesting insect.

Harry.

Im sure from a expert point of view you could not ID the moth with certainty but for me if you look (excuse the lamens terminology) behind its head ie south of its head, from the first dark stripe up i think (even though its hard to see) it looks more like TSC

harry eales · Aug 17, 2004

Richard H said:
Im sure from a expert point of view you could not ID the moth with certainty but for me if you look (excuse the lamens terminology) behind its head ie south of its head, from the first dark stripe up i think (even though its hard to see) it looks more like TSC

Hello Richard,
If I take you correctly, you mean the inner crossline. If you look through the Carpet Moths illustrations in any good quality guide, you will find several other species with similar crosslines. It is seldom that one individual feature identifies a species, it's generally a combination of features. In all honesty the photo is too out of focus to be precise about the ID especially as the moth involved appears to be a variant or variety of a species.

A might be, or a could be, or, it looks like isn't really enough for a positive ID, which is why I suggested the Carpet's Agg. File.

I suppose a birder may have similar problems with a blurred photograph of an albino male Blackbird, especially if the view was from the rear with the head and beak hidden. You might get it to be an albino Thrush, but without a view of the head and beak colour you couldn't be positive of the ID, could you? Moths vary far more within a species than birds do, which is one of the things that gives all entomologists the occasional headache.

Thanks for your input though.

Are there any comments from Angus, CJW or Drinker please???

Harry

Holiday mothing (1 Viewer)

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