John Cantelo
Well-known member
Whilst everyone may have seen the bird to their satisfaction it still means that, whilst taking photos, the guide isn't focussed on finding other birds ....
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Should professional bird tour guides use long-lens cameras? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter John Cantelo
- Start date
Whilst everyone may have seen the bird to their satisfaction it still means that, whilst taking photos, the guide isn't focussed on finding other birds ....
Mysticete
Well-known member
Depending on where they are birding, they might be heavily reliant on bird song, which can be listened for while snapping photos.
jurek
Well-known member
Professional bird photography is very different from birdwatching. The good way is to say at the beginning that the trip is for bird watching not photography. Do not try to mix things.
I was on a trip with two experienced bird photographers. They ignored rare birds if they were not close and good for a photo. They wanted to spend hours with common birds just because they were in a perfect position and lighting. So, half an hour with a Spotted Dove on a dirt road – as common as Collared Dove in Europe. If they blocked others views or others were waiting for them - the outside world simply ceased to exist. They soon found a place with a large group of Chinese photographers and stayed there happily.
In the meantime, I stopped taking a professional camera in the field. I realized that I have no time to show the photos to my friends, but even I have no interest in re-watching them myself. I snap memories and document photos with my mobile phone, which is as good as a pro camera 10 years ago.
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Nightjar61
David Daniels
It still wasn’t a problem. A few quick clicks of the camera and then on to the next bird. A few seconds at most. And unless you’re in the middle of a mixed-species flock or ant swarm, there’s often a lull between birds, even in the tropics.
Dave
MKinHK
Mike Kilburn
More and more birds, especially forest species, from organised tours are being seen from a hide at a water hole or feeding station where finding birds is not hard. In such situations I'm not sure it matters that much.
15 years ago when guiding a private tour in Southern China I was told by the client he wished I'd spent more time to photograph some of the birds - I had a rudimentary handheld digiscope setup that had a truly abysmal success rate, but I did get one image of lasting value.
Cheers
Mike
15 years ago when guiding a private tour in Southern China I was told by the client he wished I'd spent more time to photograph some of the birds - I had a rudimentary handheld digiscope setup that had a truly abysmal success rate, but I did get one image of lasting value.
Cheers
Mike
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Jeff Hopkins
Just another...observer
Hell of a shot, Mike.
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
We had a guide recently who kept stopping our car to capture scenic shots for his website.
Photographic groups themselves can be a real pain, we wanted to visit a hummingbird feeder in Costa Rica but when we arrived, it was full of photographers and there was no space for anyone else.
Photographic groups themselves can be a real pain, we wanted to visit a hummingbird feeder in Costa Rica but when we arrived, it was full of photographers and there was no space for anyone else.
rollingthunder
Well-known member
Photographers instead of birders are fast becoming a pain in the arse whether it is Hummers in Costa Rica, Waxwings in Worcestershire or just bumping into them and being pumped for info e.g. ‘anything about’ or ‘where is the...?’ - if they haven’t got binoculars or have but look as though snapping them is the prime objective they get no information from me not even a Hello - what’s the point nothing is reciprocated but then again it isn’t from parasites
Good Birding -
Laurie:t:
Good Birding -
Laurie:t:
John Cantelo
Well-known member
Thanks for some interesting replies. I've not been on many tours and have generally been satisfied with tour leaders with or without cameras but having said that I felt that there were still occasions where the tour leader's desire to get that photo meant they neglected to check whether everyone had indeed seen, had satisfactory views of or even knew that the target bird was available. Having just got the tour report from the leader who made the comment - sans any photos whatsoever - I really can't say that I missed them and even if I had by swapping email addresses with keener photographers in the party know it wouldn't be hard to insert a few. Personally, I think he's probably right and that s toting round a large and expensive camera (whose expense, of course, needs to be justified) can interfere with a guide's primary role. I think it should always be made abundantly clear whether a tour's priority is birding or bird photography. Happily, on the tours, I've been on over the last 12 months all keen photographers were very sensible.
opisska
rabid twitcher
Photographers instead of birders are fast becoming a pain in the arse whether it is Hummers in Costa Rica, Waxwings in Worcestershire or just bumping into them and being pumped for info e.g. ‘anything about’ or ‘where is the...?’ - if they haven’t got binoculars or have but look as though snapping them is the prime objective they get no information from me not even a Hello - what’s the point nothing is reciprocated but then again it isn’t from parasites
Good Birding -
Laurie:t:
It's lovely how the sole fact that I find it more convenient to watch birds using my camera than a pair of binos and suddenly I am a parasite!
Farnboro John
Well-known member
There will always be exceptions but I admit I would dismiss a tog with no bins as a non-birder as well (though I don't differentiate when it comes to exchanging information, any more than I fail to respond to a bloke with a dog or a family with kids if they ask me a wildlife-related question). o
Make sure you always wear your magnificent hat and I will know its you when we meet! :t:
John
opisska
rabid twitcher
There will always be exceptions but I admit I would dismiss a tog with no bins as a non-birder as well (though I don't differentiate when it comes to exchanging information, any more than I fail to respond to a bloke with a dog or a family with kids if they ask me a wildlife-related question). o
Make sure you always wear your magnificent hat and I will know its you when we meet! :t:
John
I think it's time I inform everyone about the tragic truth.
I lost the hat in September in Chile.
Apparently nobody makes anything similar anymore!
Barred Wobbler
Well-known member
Well, there you go.
I'll have to remember that whenever I go out for a few snaps in future that I must carry my Swaros with me at all times, whatever the extra weight or inconvenience in case I'm accused of being that dreaded parasitical species, known disparagingly as a 'togger'.
Normally I love birding and other birders, but there is a tendency at times for some people to put themselves on a pedestal where they can sit and polish their halos to their heart's content, while looking down on lesser mortals who carry out their hobby in ways that to those on high are less worthy.
Often when I respond to a thread on here I go to the bother of going through my archives, maybe up to ten years old and doing a specific edit of a photo to illustrate a particular point. That photo may come in handy and it will probably have taken some degree of time and certainly a lot of money to obtain.
When I do go out with others and go for my photos the needs of the others comes first. They get to see the birds and I get busy with my camera - but only if it's OK with them.
Maybe I'll just save myself the effort in future and not feed these 'parasites' (see what I did there) who haven't got ID photos of their own to look at and benefit from my time and effort.
Sometimes, when I read threads like this I get the feeling that I'd sooner be described as a 'togger' than a 'birder'. Toggers tend to be less up themselves.
I'll have to remember that whenever I go out for a few snaps in future that I must carry my Swaros with me at all times, whatever the extra weight or inconvenience in case I'm accused of being that dreaded parasitical species, known disparagingly as a 'togger'.
Normally I love birding and other birders, but there is a tendency at times for some people to put themselves on a pedestal where they can sit and polish their halos to their heart's content, while looking down on lesser mortals who carry out their hobby in ways that to those on high are less worthy.
Often when I respond to a thread on here I go to the bother of going through my archives, maybe up to ten years old and doing a specific edit of a photo to illustrate a particular point. That photo may come in handy and it will probably have taken some degree of time and certainly a lot of money to obtain.
When I do go out with others and go for my photos the needs of the others comes first. They get to see the birds and I get busy with my camera - but only if it's OK with them.
Maybe I'll just save myself the effort in future and not feed these 'parasites' (see what I did there) who haven't got ID photos of their own to look at and benefit from my time and effort.
Sometimes, when I read threads like this I get the feeling that I'd sooner be described as a 'togger' than a 'birder'. Toggers tend to be less up themselves.
Farnboro John
Well-known member
Jan - my sincere commiserations! I hope you held a wake for that hat. I will have a beer tonight to mourn it myself.
Mr BW - I went out the other day with my camera but without my bins and felt an almost physical shock when the thought struck me "I'm turning into a photographer!" As I tried to imply in my last post I hope to treat everyone with the same humanity, togs/toggers included (I prefer Tog but I grew up with Pogles Wood, younger readers ask your parents).
However my attitude was severely tested by a bins-less tog at Pennington who responded to my "what've you got?" birder conversational opening gambit with "I won't know till I get home, same as you" - flippin' cheek! I was glad I had a bigger one than he did.
John
Mr BW - I went out the other day with my camera but without my bins and felt an almost physical shock when the thought struck me "I'm turning into a photographer!" As I tried to imply in my last post I hope to treat everyone with the same humanity, togs/toggers included (I prefer Tog but I grew up with Pogles Wood, younger readers ask your parents).
However my attitude was severely tested by a bins-less tog at Pennington who responded to my "what've you got?" birder conversational opening gambit with "I won't know till I get home, same as you" - flippin' cheek! I was glad I had a bigger one than he did.
John
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
A fairly similar design is to be found commonly in Nepalese tourist shops.
Edit: I think the bloke who stole your hat has listed it on ebay......:-O
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hippie-B...796464?hash=item5b66cdf0b0:g:s8cAAOSwoqFd5S4N
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opisska
rabid twitcher
aaah, it's almost but not quite
The original hat was indeed made in Nepal (but distributed in Czech Republic). Guess I am gonna have to visit Nepal (if world travel ever resumes normally ...) Now I think however I have kinda derailed the thread quite far
Julian Bell
Natural Born Birder
As someone who regularly does professional bird guiding my take on this is that the camera is always taken along but mostly stays in my rucksack. I let clients know that I have a camera with me but that it is for "emergencies" only.
Sometimes clients are more interested in photo opportunities rather than number of species, sometimes the other way around. Either way I use bins and scope to find the next thing of interest and have thus missed some incredible photo opportunities. I think this is fine, as guiding is a great way to be out and about and if the price to pay is less photos then so be it. As a guide one should generally be lining up the next bird or at least being aware of the next photo opportunity for the client.
There are two exceptions to this rule:
1) The client wants photos taken for whatever reason - sometimes clients do not have a camera.
2) If I find a rarity that needs documentation and the client does not have a camera.
On the occasions I have actually taken my camera out whilst guiding the clients have been quite happy as the situation has dictated it.
Sometimes clients are more interested in photo opportunities rather than number of species, sometimes the other way around. Either way I use bins and scope to find the next thing of interest and have thus missed some incredible photo opportunities. I think this is fine, as guiding is a great way to be out and about and if the price to pay is less photos then so be it. As a guide one should generally be lining up the next bird or at least being aware of the next photo opportunity for the client.
There are two exceptions to this rule:
1) The client wants photos taken for whatever reason - sometimes clients do not have a camera.
2) If I find a rarity that needs documentation and the client does not have a camera.
On the occasions I have actually taken my camera out whilst guiding the clients have been quite happy as the situation has dictated it.
John Cantelo
Well-known member
That sounds about right to me & a good reason to book on a trip you're leading .....
