• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Best Optics-B&L or Pentax (1 Viewer)

ulgah

Active member
Birdwatchers,
Some of you that have some experience with the binoculars in question. I do know a little about these, as I read much about binocular reviews, ect. For your information, I would love to have a Zeiss FL 7x42, but at $1300, little rich for my blood!! I would like someone that has looked through, both the B&L Elite 8x42 and the Pentax DCF SP 8x43, to help me in choosing same!! I am more interested in the image than anything else. I have read that both give the great image. Mechanically, they are about the same, I’m sure the B&L is best at ergonomics, but the Pentax is not bad. That leaves, only the most important, in my eyes, the optics. I’m sure most of you can see, that B&L is dying, while Pentax is coming on!! If Pentax keeps it going, we all know that, they’ll be # one before too long!! I think they already # one in versatility. I live in a rural area, and would have to travel 150 miles to find a place I could compare same.
Thanks for your time.
 
ulgah said:
Birdwatchers,
Some of you that have some experience with the binoculars in question. I do know a little about these, as I read much about binocular reviews, ect. For your information, I would love to have a Zeiss FL 7x42, but at $1300, little rich for my blood!! I would like someone that has looked through, both the B&L Elite 8x42 and the Pentax DCF SP 8x43, to help me in choosing same!! I am more interested in the image than anything else. I have read that both give the great image. Mechanically, they are about the same, I’m sure the B&L is best at ergonomics, but the Pentax is not bad. That leaves, only the most important, in my eyes, the optics. I’m sure most of you can see, that B&L is dying, while Pentax is coming on!! If Pentax keeps it going, we all know that, they’ll be # one before too long!! I think they already # one in versatility. I live in a rural area, and would have to travel 150 miles to find a place I could compare same.
Thanks for your time.

B&L was bought by Bushnell several years ago. At least some of the better B&L binoculars now are under the Bushnell label.

I'm not sure why you think "Pentax is coming on!!". I see very few of them in the hands of birders. Several of the amateur astronomers I know who have tried the larger, but modestly priced, Pentax binoculars found problems with the alignment of the tubes.

What seem to be coming on are the roof prism binoculars under house labels like Orion Savannah. They are about $350USD. Eagle Optics also has several nice roof prism binoculars in the $300 to $450 range.

The Savannah I have works very well.

Rich
 
Greetings!

I would highly recommend the Pentax SP series... a bit more chromatic aberration than most high-end models, but in all other respects very comparable. I personally feel that these are the best mid-range waterproof roof prism binoculars on the market, and one of the best binocular values available.

Best wishes,
Bawko
 
Pentax is not coming on, they are here! Their use of ED glass in a mid-range roof has really improved their standing. Personally, I would never buy a store brand. You never know who is making it this week. Many such brands start off as a quality Japanese build, garner a good reputation and then production is quietly moved to a low bidder in China. The Pentax SPs are as good as it gets without stepping up to the Euro big three top of the line.

ranburr
 
So how do you know Pentax hasn't moved some of their production to China, to be shuffled around to whatever factory bids lowest this year?
 
That is always a possibility, not a probability though since they are a true manufacturer and they do the final assembly on the lines that we are discussing here. I would not be surprised if they are brand labeling some of their low-cost porros.

ranburr
 
We've already had discussions in other threads that there's really no way for a consumer to know where a particular Japanese bin is made. I would hope that if it says "Made in Japan" that it really is, but it's probably not from a factory operated by the brand that's on the bin. The guy from Eagle Optics was quite emphatic that Nikon HG/LX bins are not made in a Nikon factory. All this is to say that a house brand is likely made in the same factory as a well-known Japanese brand like Nikon or Pentax, and it may even have identical optics and visibly identical exterior parts. The eyecups and diopter dial on my wife's Minolta 8x42 roof are identical to those on my Eagle Optics Ranger Platinum Class, and except that the EO focuses a foot or two closer, I can't tell them apart optically. I wouldn't snub a house brand if it's an established retailer and they offer a good warranty. Eagle Optics has a lifetime, transferrable, no-fault warranty on their Ranger Platinum Class bins.
 
"B&L was bought by Bushnell several years ago. At least some of the better B&L binoculars now are under the Bushnell label."

Not anymore, take a look at Bushnell's website. Don't know if B&L are now being offered by B&L or perhaps the bin line is defunct.
 
You are exactly right on many of the binos being made in the same factory, using many of the same components. That does not mean that they are made to the same level. Light Optical Works and Hakko make much of the better Japanese brand labeled product. House brands can be a good buy, but I avoid them. With a house brand you just don't know for sure about quality from batch to batch. Also, I know I can eventually get the bigger guys to follow through and honor warranty work. I know that Eagle Optics will back their products and often just supply a replacement bino. I also know of a number of house brands that do not stand behind their products. What would happen if Eagle Optics went out of business or sold out? I personally only buy from manufacturers that I know will be around and back their products. If others like the house brands, more power to you.

ranburr
 
Ulgah,

From your other posts it is clear that you know quite a bit about binoculars, and I can understand why you long for a Zeiss FL 7x42. But if you are interested in a 7x42, and the two 8x binoculars you are considering are in the $600 to $800 range, then wouldn't you consider Zeiss ClassiC 7x42 or Leica Trinovid BN 7x42? Admittedly the older style Leica does not have the best ergonomics, but both of these are still among the best 7x42s ever made. You can buy the Zeiss new for under $800, and can get the Leica new for about $860, both with USA warranties. Both are tried-and-true, rugged, and optically excellent.
 
Bill Atwood said:
"B&L was bought by Bushnell several years ago. At least some of the better B&L binoculars now are under the Bushnell label."

Not anymore, take a look at Bushnell's website. Don't know if B&L are now being offered by B&L or perhaps the bin line is defunct.

Take a look at the Bushnell line of binoculars. The B&L 7x26 in now under the Bushnell label. I believe this is true for other popular binoculars that had been under the B&L label.

Rich
 
ranburr said:
Pentax is not coming on, they are here! Their use of ED glass in a mid-range roof has really improved their standing. Personally, I would never buy a store brand. You never know who is making it this week. Many such brands start off as a quality Japanese build, garner a good reputation and then production is quietly moved to a low bidder in China. The Pentax SPs are as good as it gets without stepping up to the Euro big three top of the line.

ranburr

Pentax could help their brand name by not selling inexpensive astro binoculars that have alignment problems.

Orion has been around for a long time. My experience with them is they stand behind their products. Although I've had virtually no problems with their products.

For $350USD you get a good binocular. If it screws up 5 years or 10 years later, I will buy new binocular.

Rich
 
Pentax suffers from the same problems that companies like Nikon do. You cannot be all things to all people. If you are going to make quality optics stick to quality optics, do not attempt to also serve the lesser markets. The euros have been successful by focusing on the high-end markets and serving the upper mid markets with subsidiaries (Leica=Minox, Swarovski=Kahles). Zeiss is the exception who has put out quality mid-range products with the Zeiss logo on them. Instead of spending $350 on a binocular, I would suggest waiting until you have $500 and purchase a 10x42 Minox and get a quality warranty and a pair of binos that will last a lifetime. That is just me.

ranburr
 
Jonathan,
Thanks for the info. I understand that the Classics' optics are still superior to most of the newer roofs. Cabelas has the 10x40 Classic for $700.00, which I strongly considered, but the Classics do not have internal focusing, thus are not totally waterproof. Shame, perfection snubbed!! But, that is an idea worth considering, as those glasses are too good to ignore. I generally prefer the lower powers, as they are brighter and easier to use.
 
ulgah said:
Jonathan,
Thanks for the info. I understand that the Classics' optics are still superior to most of the newer roofs. Cabelas has the 10x40 Classic for $700.00, which I strongly considered, but the Classics do not have internal focusing, thus are not totally waterproof. Shame, perfection snubbed!! But, that is an idea worth considering, as those glasses are too good to ignore. I generally prefer the lower powers, as they are brighter and easier to use.

I know the Zeiss 7x42 Classic doesn't have internal focusing. But are you sure the 10x40 Classic doesn't have internal focusing? The 10x40 looks like it has internal focusing.

Rich
 
Wow, this has been quite an informative thread! Lets see if I can add more good info. 17th Street Photo has the Pentax DCF SP 8x43 for $435.00, and there is a $50.00 rebate from Pentax. B&H Photo has the B&L Elite 8x42 for $600.00.
 
Good question, Rich. I don't know, I just read or heard somewhere that the Classics are not totally waterproof because the focusing is not internal. I just assumed that was all Classics. Does anybody here, know? I'll have to check that out.
 
ranburr said:
What would happen if Eagle Optics went out of business or sold out? I personally only buy from manufacturers that I know will be around and back their products.

ranburr

Did you ever own a Petri or Miranda camera? Miranda was a big-time Japanese camera manufacturer 30 years ago, seemingly as solid as they come. I owned a couple of them, and I recently inherited a Miranda Automex. Try to get one repaired now! Or how about an Exakta? In the 1950s, the (East) German Exakta gleamed in photographers' eyes almost as brightly as Leica. The Exakta nameplate ended its run as a Japanese camera! The point is, even the most illustrious companies can bite the big one. For a cheap bin, a house brand, I'm not going to worry about it. If it's bad, it'll likely be bad right out of the box, and they'll fix it or give me a new one. Ten years from now, I probably won't even care.
 
ulgah said:
Good question, Rich. I don't know, I just read or heard somewhere that the Classics are not totally waterproof because the focusing is not internal. I just assumed that was all Classics. Does anybody here, know? I'll have to check that out.

I looked at a couple of my older Zeiss brochures. Neither say any of their binoculars are "waterproof". It could be the European definition of waterproof is more strict? There must be someone on this forum who has experience with the Zeiss 10x40 Classic.

At least the Zeiss UK website says the new FLs are waterproof. The mention a waterproof standard they meet.

Rich
 
Curtis Croulet said:
For a cheap bin, a house brand, I'm not going to worry about it. If it's bad, it'll likely be bad right out of the box, and they'll fix it or give me a new one. Ten years from now, I probably won't even care.

Good for you. I personally don't share your view and I try to purchase items that wil last a lifetime. Todays mid-priced roofs ($500-$800) are good enought to give you just that. What we have in the mid-range today blows away the top of the line models from even the late 80s to early 90s. who would have thought even a recently as ten years ago that you could get binos with ED glass or aspherical lenses for $500? Heck who even knew what ED glass and aspherical lenses were? These binos will serve you well, or they will handle things until you are ready to shell out $1,500 for the true top of the line models. And we are talking about companies that have track records either approaching or exceeding the century mark. No store brand can make that claim. I believe that you should use the best optics that you can afford. If that is a $350 set of store brand binos, get them. If that means a $1,500 euro special, get them. I am pretty pleased with a set of $800 mid-range euro-roofs that will be going strong still in another 30yrs, if not they will be warrantied repaired by a company that is well over 100yrs old and going strong to this day. To me that is a better value than buyin a $350 store brand and having to replace them in 5-10 yrs, at which time they will probably cost $500-$700. If someone else has a different view, great. This is just mine.

ranburr
 
Warning! This thread is more than 19 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top