Panasonic Lumix FS10 (1 Viewer)

pete_gamby said:

Hi Keith - in this case, the lens mount i.e. the bit that attaches to the FS10 is not available to buy separately. All the mounts we've had made for the FS10 are put into the boxes that include the other parts.

At present, the only circumstance under which a mount would be supplied on its own would be to replace a faulty item.

Cheers, Pete

Click to expand...

That shoots down that idea then!

Can I say that the FS7 kit for the SDL eyepiece is great as I can carry the adapter with camera attached in the pocket of my birding waistcoat and simply slot it into place as needed. Much easier than the Baader adapter I was using with my Kowa scope, which was so bulky I gave up using it.

Today i decide to go to focus optics and have a "hands on" with the fs10.
I went with the thought that this visit would help me dcide if The FS10 was a good move from my P6000.

The FS10 and my P6000 where tried on my ES 80 ED, Photo's where taken of a printed chart in the grounds... vignetting was slightly less than i get with my P6000 but there was little to no difference in the quality/clarity of the pictures (viewed on a pc 1:1)
We also tried both cameras with a HDF zoom EP to see if vignetting would be less due to the lower magnification at the bottom end... result no improvment.

Then both cameras where tested on a swarovski scope on a top of the range tripod and head...same test chart from the same distance... the results where that both cameras produced similar results... clarity was higher has expected through the higher quality scope, vignetting was as before.
The conclusion was that i would be gaining nothing or very little by changing cameras from the P6000 to the FS10 even with the slightly more vignetting through my P6000, what did become clear is that a more stable tripod and head may be a better investment to improve my results.
Tim..the chap at Focus was very very helpfull and could not do enough to help me with my problem.
So now i will be looking for advice on creating more stabilty and maybe upgrading my tripod...however i'm not sure i can go as far as buying the tripod used for the testing.

Jon

Jon, I think the biggest problem as far as resolution is heat waves during the day, even on cloudy days. Digiscoping over grass and as high as possible is best. When I do testing I like to do it well after dark over grass, and when the air is still, and with lights on the target. Looking at the sky is even more of a problem.

The P6000 is certainly a good camera, and hard to beat. I say it whips all kit cameras under $6,000 for resolution at low iso. My LX3 is also good. They say the Canon G10 is a bit sharper and of course heavier.

I am going through a grinding decision to try and update to the Pen E-PL1 with the Pany 20/1.7. Much discussion now about how bad the shutter vibration is with the prime, and of course all focal plain cameras have this fault to a degree. Of course there is a lens rattling problem with the zoom of this camera.

Anyway, in upgrading to the micro 4/3 I HOPE not to lose any sharpness (???) and to
gain 3 or 4 stops in speed with equal grain, which could help a lot with the f-8 scopes we are stuck with. Still trying to decide. Any thoughts anyone? Gene

I agrre Gene conditions have a negative efect at times but i now think my problems are stability, user error (me) and i still seem to have this focusing problem where although the subject is in focus though the camera and scope the resulting pictures are still out of focus.
I read (on here i think) that some people find they have to focus and then move the focusing point of the scope a couple of notches behind the subject, i have had a few attempts at this but not to in depth.
I intend to look at these problems a bit closes ASAP, I think i'll have my scope/camera supported on/in bean bags to give good stability and remove/reduce vibration this way and take a series of pic's of a static subject and altering the focus of the scope in increments both fore and aft of the sharp point showing on the set up....hope that makes sense.
The problem with this i think is that if i do these tests at say 25yards and get a conclusion to where the focus point really is on my set up at 25yards then the amount of adjustment would alter with a larger or shorter distance...making this a very inacurate method to use in a none controlled enviroment... Maybe someone could confirm or not that my thinking is right on this point.
I love my P6000 as a camera and as you say Gene a good camera for this job (it was recomended to me) so i would like to work around the problems with this to enable me to keep it.
I'm sure there are upgrades both camera and scope wise for me but unfortunatly i have fairly deep pockets..
Jon

Jon, sorry, I have not given much attention to how you are mounting the camera on the scope. Now it appears that a rubber cup holds the camera by the extended lens. Correct me if I am wrong. I think it is a problem if anything touches a movable part of the lens. Perhaps this method of support is used by Birders who either hand hold or use the cup holder for record photos, not interested in the quality of the shot.

I do not observe through my scope while digiscoping, so I use a firm threaded attachment of the filter extension tube mounting the lens with the body. I know you were looking at the mounting to the pod socket. I believe the P6000 has a tele mount tube that attaches to the body, does it not? This would be a better attachment method.

I think focusing the scope by eye and then attaching the camera has a couple of problems. The eye does accommodate to focus on an un-sharp scope image. It is a different situation if the eye is used to focus on a ground glass, as in the old SLR. Also any uncorrected far or near sighted-ness translates to an out of focus adjustment.

I do not like to manual focus, but a couple of points. The best method is to focus quickly for maximum contrast on a detailed and contrasty section, not trying to maximize the detail resolution itself. Do not go far to find a unsharpness and then focus near to do the same and then try to mechanically split the difference. Bad. I have done that with poor optics. With good viewing and adjusted optics the contrast should instantly POP into sharp focus contrast. I am also shakey, which shakes the scope. Oh for a good, compact, electronic step motor focuser that does not have to move the camera, rack and pinion, and all!

Automatic focus in important to me. The P6000 may or may not be weak on this feature?? Select the auto method focus that works the best for you. And of course there is always that stupid blade of grass in front that you did not see until later! Yes, about to pop for the 4/3 camera. Hope I at least gain something. Good luck. Gene

Thanks Gene, I'm gratefull for the help/advice.

My setup...screwed to my P6000s thread around the lens is a purpose made tube made by Griturn http://www.srb-griturn.com/28mm-adaptor-sleeve-for-coolpix-p5000p5100p6000-1374-p.asp to this is attached opticrons DCC adapter via the thread on the end of the camera tube http://www.opticron.co.uk/Pages/dcc_adapter.htm
This part fits over the eye piece and can be tighted on and is a firm attachment to the scope.

My focusing problems could be caused by the fact that i wear vari focul glasses (graduating down from distance at the top to close at the bottom) so i have to be aware that i'm looking through the correct part of my glasses each time i focus, my thinking is the centre of my glasses being the correct area (middle distance) and really this is only a problem when focusing the scope.
However if the problem is my eyes/glasses then i'm stuffed and may as well give up now :-C
Gene i have taken a series of pictures. http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/spuggyhawk/FocusTest?authkey=Gv1sRgCL_vmZijz66ysQE&feat=directlink
My scope has raised notches on the focusing wheel about a eight of an inch apart.
Pic 1 = is me focusing the scope then attaching the camera
Pic 2 = as above but 1 notch adjustment in focus further away
pic 3 = as above 2 notches adjustment
pic 4 = as above 3 notches adjustment
pic 5 = me focusing the scope then attaching the camera and 1 notch adjustment toward near focus
pic 6 = as above 2 notches adjustment
pic 7 = as above 3 notches adjustment
pic 8 = me focusing on the subject by only viewing the camera screen

I'm not sure if the subject is the right type to use but there you go.
I hope you understand all the above Gene.
Is there one pic sharper than the rest? are any of the pic's pin sharp?
What are your thoughts.
Jon

I thought pic 8 looked sharpest and then maybe pic 4 next. There's some edge softness from the eyepiece in all of them but as far as centre sharpness goes then it's pic 8 for me. Whenever I digiscope in the traditional manner then I've always found focusing on the screen works best no matter what camera I've used.

Paul.

Thanks Paul,
I agree with with Paul that # 8 is the sharpest. The first 4 are close also. Perhaps there was some play in the focuser. Yes, good test subject and a good series of tests. Digiscoping is not used for architectural photos, and the sharpness and quality is good in 2 or 3 of the shots.

Many people set their cameras to the Maco setting, might try that if you have not. I do not see any auto focus shots, have you tried that? Did you use a time delay or cable release?

I see the P6000 price is still high. We need to give the lower cost ($160 USD) Lumix SF10 credit for being about equal to the best cameras.

I sense you are not comfortable with your glasses. Certainly single vision better for photography. Remember, you can get anything YOU want for better seeing. See the attached post plus two more in the same thread for a person to grind back a section of plastic lens for fitting into an electric view finder. This is not your problem, but you can use the source to get cheapie glasses for 8 to $17 USD. Be sure your prescription is up to date. Thanks, Gene


http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=35677584

Thanks Paul and Gene.
No 8 was my choice aswell, focusing on the camera screen always seems harder to me but in this instance it seems to have produced the clearer pic.
However i was just inside my house so no bright sun on the screen ..that allways makes it harder, i may make myself some sort of shade for the screen to combat that.
Gene i have used macro before but not in tests and ive not seen any noticable difference...but that could be me :-O
i used a cable release Gene.
When you say "auto focus shots" do you mean full time auto focus? I have that setting on the P6000 but have never used it, I use the normal AF in that when the shutter rease is half depresed it auto focuses.

Yes your right Gene the P6000 is still fetching good prices and yes the FS10 produced as good results when i tried both however the FS10 does not have as many manualy adjustable settings as the p6000... no Apature priority or IR remote although i'm advised the the IR remote is not much use.

I wouldnt go as far as "uncomfortable with my glasses" Gene, I need close and distance correction so varifoculs work great for me. In use in photography if i was wearing just lenses for close work (reading glasses) and looked up from 12 inches in front of me i wouldnt see much :-O My perscriptin is fairly recent.
That thread you linked to Gene is interesting... putting the eye correction on the camera or viewfinder is what i'm thinking it means.
I have reading glasses that i use sometimes at home but not often i'll have a go with them and see if it makes any difference.

Going on both yours and pauls remarks on the test i did then on screen focusing is what i need to practice and do a more exstensive test just using that method and see if it and myself can produce consitant results.
I'm also looking around for a decent tripod and head to replace mine with ..without being to costly....good old ebay.:smoke:

Thanks for your time guys !!

Jon

test

Thanks, Jon, you have been busy. i like the Juv Swallow and Juv Robin the best, although the glistening worm with the robin is good also. Thanks for providing the full screen option so the sharpness can be seen. Too many example shots are only about 3 by 4. I judge about half of the shots are of quite good sharpness, which proves your equipment. I see one bit of CA on a limb on one shot, do not know what that is from, but does not seem to be a general problem.

I have had my E-PL1 with the 20/1.7 prime for a day. Learning the menues. They are not as bad as some people judged as long as I stick to the basics. Looks like possible 2 stop gain in speed, and some unexpected gain in resolution over my LX3, but that is preliminary. Have to do a balance bar, just to heavy to hang on even my two inch focuser. Gene

Penny Clarke said:

The Lumix Opticron kit also works with the Nikon ED50 Scope!!!!!!!

Extract from my blog:


'Went to Cleyspy............They have a fantastic new piece of kit in the shop - a Panasonic Lumix 12mp camera for digiscoping with the Opticron scope, BUT it also fits brilliantly onto the Nikon ED50!!!! It was so simple, it was awesome! Simple bracket that screws onto the camera in seconds - hold over eye piece - screw tight - done! No messing about! The images were brilliant through the 13-40x eye piece and stunning through the 20x! Whole kit £265.'

Click to expand...

Hi Penny
I'm a bit late to this thread but hopefully you're still around/reading. I wondered if you have any samples of the photos taken through the ED50 with the FS10 camera? I'm very interested in this set up.
Many thanks
Hobbes

Smithhill said:

Thanks, Jon, you have been busy. i like the Juv Swallow and Juv Robin the best, although the glistening worm with the robin is good also. Thanks for providing the full screen option so the sharpness can be seen. Too many example shots are only about 3 by 4. I judge about half of the shots are of quite good sharpness, which proves your equipment. I see one bit of CA on a limb on one shot, do not know what that is from, but does not seem to be a general problem.

I have had my E-PL1 with the 20/1.7 prime for a day. Learning the menues. They are not as bad as some people judged as long as I stick to the basics. Looks like possible 2 stop gain in speed, and some unexpected gain in resolution over my LX3, but that is preliminary. Have to do a balance bar, just to heavy to hang on even my two inch focuser. Gene

Click to expand...

Gene ive not been as busy as you think :-O
The Juv Robin, swallow,egret,oystercatchers,lapwing,tern and goldfinch where taken sometime ago with my canon eos. The grebe and robin with worm where taken with my old Olympus (low MP) through my first scope.
I just put those few on there because i like them.
Since we last spoke ive took the Whitethroat, Cormarant and Bullfinch... the Bullfinch is the one i'm most disapointed in because he posed for me for ages and i took loads of shots on a varity of settings and re-focused 3 or 4 times and still didnt get a sharp pic... also his red came out orange, the same could be said of the cormarant..loads of shots, the whitethroat was figity and didnt hang around.
I can say i can see some imrovement but not enough, i'm looking at getting a hoodman loupe to aid me in the field with my focusing... i cant believe the price of them for what they are.

I dont know the E-PL1 Gene but i have always liked Olympus cameras, my old one was a nice one in its day.
Jon

You can fabricate a magnifying hood as i did. See attachment:
http://www.PhotoShare.co.nz/PhotoShareGallery1/101684/109654/Q-EViewingBack010768_S.jpg

The large eyelens allows you to see manual or auto focus from several inches back if you want. The 45 deg. mirror flips the image right side up for my OTA, but you would not want to use it I guess for your scope. Is attached at the pod connection and is made of 1/16 fiberglass board and filled epoxy cement. Lens from Surplus Shed.
Straps, Velcro, or the pod connection can be used to hold in place.

Other people have used the lens and hood part of a 2 1/4 side viewer. Let me know if you want more specifics. Gene

Dont know if it's me Gene but i cant get you link attachment to work.

Slide viewer... now theres a good idea, i'll look into that !

Back to the FS-10 ?

I've just bought this, having not digiscoped since my wonderful Coolpix 4500 just ground to a halt years ago.

Those more currently au fait with techniques: should I use iA, normal, aperture priority, macro ? ? ?

Haven't really had the time or opportunity to test the set-up for myself.

Many thanks.

Hey, come on Hobbes and Firstrees, you got to read the current posts before you ask for more help! Jon has given some fine test shots with the FS10. And there is no Aperture Priority with this camera. I would not use the iA. And would use the normal auto focus, not full time. With most cameras it is best to use the Macro setting. Sorry I have not used this camera.

Vignetting with the 4500 was not much of a problem. Most modern cameras need the 20mm of eye relief such as offered by the 30X Swaro and Hyperion eye pieces. I think the prime eye pieces are better than the zooms in all brands and types of eyepieces. Of course NEVER attach a camera nor touch a lens focus extension. You will either damage it or cause a focus error. Jon has shown the fantastic filter adapter tube that attaches to the body, a great feature for this camera. It is also not good to attach even a stationary lens to a scope. It is a downer when you have to re-assembly the lens with weed seed between the elements.

So, if you discover any thing new with this camera report back to us. Specific information is hard to come by for this little used digiscoping application, especially for newer cameras. Thanks, Gene

Smithhill said:

Hey, come on Hobbes and Firstrees, you got to read the current posts before you ask for more help! <snip> Thanks, Gene

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???? Um...I asked about sample shots with the Nikon ED50 scope which Penny is using (not the opticron that Jon is using). And for what it's worth, I read all the posts first and the link to Jon's photos doesn't work for me anyway. Ah well, no skin off my nose.

Hobbes

firstreesjohn said:

I've just bought this, having not digiscoped since my wonderful Coolpix 4500 just ground to a halt years ago.

Those more currently au fait with techniques: should I use iA, normal, aperture priority, macro ? ? ?

Haven't really had the time or opportunity to test the set-up for myself.

Many thanks.

Click to expand...

I went and tried the FS10 setup on my scope (ES 80 ED) at the shop with the thought that it may be better than the camera setup i already have... it wasnt so i'm sticking with my P6000 for the moment, as Gene mentiond it doesnt have AP.
In the shop i couldnt fiddle with the settings to much but the results through my scope where pretty much on par with my P6000 but you are limited on the settings with the FS10 compared to the P6000.
I do really like the bracket that the FS10 mounts onto and the CDA that fits over the scope EP is great too, i use that on my setup.

Not sure why my link wont work for you Hobs...works fine for me !

Jon

spuggyhawk said:

<snip>

Not sure why my link wont work for you Hobs...works fine for me !

Jon

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Hiya Jon
Re: your pictures, I just get the message: "Oops... there's nothing to see here. Either you do not have access to these photos or they don't exist at this web address. Please contact the owner directly to gain access."
Thanks
Hobbes