EII - Increased Brightness following on from 100th Anniversary Edition (1 Viewer)

To mark its 100th anniversary in June 2017, Nikon offered several products. It:
- produced several limited edition cameras and accessories
- introduced the remarkable WX binoculars, and
- produced a limited edition of the EII 8x30 comprising 400 units
see the screen grab from the now closed 100th Anniversary site


EII 8x30 Anniversary Edition Coatings
Tobias Mennle has previously commented on the increased brightness of the EII 8x30 Anniversary Edition: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=364271
The thread also links to the full review on Tobias’ site, where he notes that while the image is both brighter and more neutral, it’s still darker than that of the Swarovski Habicht 8x30 Porro


Upgraded Regular Production
It seems that the change to the Anniversary Edition coatings have also been applied to the regular production
e.g. among others, both Dennis/ Denco and Peter/ wllmspd have commented favourably on the brightness of recently acquired EII 8x30’s, see: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=380831

As this is a significant change, it seems worthwhile to draw it to the attention of those contemplating a purchase

At the latest, regular production 8x30 units from #821,110 should have the improved coatings - and perhaps from as early as #820,000 - see the explanation below


continued . . .

Earlier EII Transmission
The EII line was introduced in 1999 and has since been in continuous production
And while there is great affection by many for the EII, it’s relative lack of brightness has long been an issue

Gijs van Ginkel has provided transmission data for three 8x30 EII units, which shows improvement over time (see the next post)
It would be interesting to see the performance of the latest 2017+ version of the EII (a not too subtle hint!)


EII 8x30 Numbering
Sometime ago I became interested in Nikon’s Porro prism binoculars, and I’ve previously posted:
- various material including sources of historical information, brochures and flyers: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=373557 , and
- some early reviews: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=377186


Since then I have done some further research, and have observed the following numbering for the EII 8x30
There appears to be 4 number ranges, in the following order:

A) 500,168 to 503,768 (the same range was also initially used for the SE 8x32)

B) 800,001 to 811,585 (800,001 is from a Nikon stock image)

C) 820,083 to 821,471 (a Nikon stock image for the below Anniversary units is numbered 821,110 - see attached)

D) 081,507 to 081,923 (for the 400 units of the 100th Anniversary Edition, issued July 2017) *

* e.g. see the image of Globetrotter’s unit from post #16 at: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=3662281#post3662281


In relation to the Anniversary Edition:
- All the actual units I’ve observed are numbered in the D) series (which covers more than a 400 unit span), and as noted
- In contrast, the promotional image for the limited edition shows a unit numbered #821,110


Numbering on Updated Regular Production EII 8x30
Taking the above into account, it would seem that the regular production has the new coatings by #821,110 at the latest
- and perhaps more likely from the start of the new number sequence at #820,000
And of course information from those owning recent regular production units could resolve this (another not too subtle hint!)


And the EII 10x35?
It would be reasonable to assume that the EII 10x35 has been similarly updated
However, I’ve not seen any conformation of this, nor do I have any idea when the numbering changes (though perhaps again with a new number sequence?)


Reason for the Upgrade
The lack of EII brightness has always seemed strange when taking into account Nikon’s capabilities with coatings e.g. consider their expertise with SLR lenses
It doesn’t seem that they were incapable of making a brighter EII but they deliberately chose not to do so

Tobias has noted that an 8x42 EDG he recently acquired is significantly brighter than a previous unit, see here: http://www.greatestbinoculars.com/index.html
And this may provide a clue:
- when upgrading the coatings on it’s mid-priced EII Porro line, Nikon may have been mindful to not give the EII’s higher transmission
than the high-priced LX/ HG/ HGL and EDG roof prism lines which started in 1997
- but now with superior transmission added to the EDG, the EII may have been correspondingly upgraded

continued . . .

Gijs van Ginkel’s Transmission Data

In April 2013, Gijs published transmission data for a variety of Nikon Porro prism binoculars

At the time, the report generated questions as to the seemingly too low transmission of the early EII 8x30 unit
It was queried whether the particular unit and/ or the testing was somehow defective

Then in November 2017, Gijs published an updated version of the report which:
- included a graph for a third EII 8x30 unit (showing what many would consider to be more expected performance), and
- omitted the graph for the supposedly atypical first EII 8x30 unit (though it’s transmission details are still included in the table of specifications)
The new report can be found here: https://www.houseofoutdoor.com/verrekijkers/verrekijkers-testen-en-vergelijken/ , see ‘Testrapport Nikon 8x32SE . . . ‘, dated Nov 2017


Data
For convenience I’ve attached the following graphs, showing from left to right:
A) 3rd EII 8x30
B) SE 8x32 (and for comparison the Swarovski Habicht 8x30)
C) various 8x30’s (including the 2nd EII 8x30)
D) 1st EII 8x30 (from the 2013 report)


Transmission
In order of transmission from the highest to lowest, the units are:
1) 8x30 EII - 3rd (Multi-Coated, dating from c.2016?; added to the 2017 report)

2) 8x32 SE #550,xxx (MC, late production, c.2008?)

3) 8x30 EII - 2nd (MC, c.20xx?)

4) 8x30 EII - 1st #808,xxx (MC, c.2008?; omitted from the 2017 report - the transmission curve is effectively the same as below)
5) 8x30 8.3 deg #414,xxx (E series, MC, c.1990)

6) 8x30 8.5 deg #537,xxx (Single Coated, c.1965; this is an A series Nikon Kogaku Tokyo unit, which originated in 1959)


Observations
Contrary to other views, I think that the performance is explicable:
- There’s an expected increase in the performance of the three EII’s over time - 4), 3) and 1)
- Unusually, while the EII used a new optical design, it seems that for some time it retained the coatings of it’s E predecessor - 4) verses 5)
- The performance of the single coated A model is as expected - 6), and
- The performance of the SE (discontinued in 2008) places it between the two more recent EII units - 2) verses 1) & 3)


In relation to the second observation, my own subjective experience is consistent with this
I have a late multi-coated 8x30 E #447,924 (production was from 1988 to 1998 and numbering from 400,000 to 448,643+)
and the brightness and colour is not readily distinguishable from my 8x30 EII #811,134

The second observation seems to make sense when taking into account my comments in the previous post, regarding coatings on the mid-priced EII Porro prism line
and those on the high-priced roof prism lines
- the EII performance was the consequence of a deliberate decision by Nikon, rather than any technical inability

Consistent with the EII’s mid-priced status and coatings, is that the performance of the first EII unit lags behind that of a contemporary higher priced SE unit - 4) verses 2)

And finally in a broader context, it should be noted that Nikon offers an extensive binocular range at various price points, where features - including coatings - typically vary with price


John

Is the Nikon EII still in production , I want one but cannot find a new one anywhere.

:-C :-C

Cheers.

Hi,

I think it is officially only sold in Japan but there are quite a lot of japanese resellers on ebay (at least that's where I got mine a few years ago). Remember you might have to pay taxes and duties on receipt - or not, if you're lucky...

There seem to be a one or two retailers over here in germany who import them themselves and sell at a significant premium - like a few hundred euro more...

Of course direct import might result in problems with warranty - has anybody experience with warranty work on directly imported pair of E2?

Joachim

Joachim,

The warranty from Japan is one year, and I think that is only in Japan. If I need work here in the US Suddarth Optical and a few more repair facilities can work on porro glass. Europe might be different with Nikon service, here in the US repair on sport optics is diminishing, replacement is the new mantra.

Andy W.

Refining when the Change Commenced on the EII 8x30

Andy/ dries1 PM’d me the following:

‘My 8x30 EII's:
Regular - No. 821029
Anniversary Edition - No. 081943

They are both the same, I could not tell the difference in the view, (both crystal clear with excellent resolution - on axis and directly adjacent to on axis) specifically in brightness’


So from Andy’s info we now know:
a) The Anniversary Edition spans at least #081,507 to #081,943, and more significantly that

b) Regular production has the new coatings by #821,029 at the latest (and more than likely from 821,000?)



John

John A Roberts said:

Earlier EII Transmission
The EII line was introduced in 1999 and has since been in continuous production
And while there is great affection by many for the EII, it’s relative lack of brightness has long been an issue


And the EII 10x35?
It would be reasonable to assume that the EII 10x35 has been similarly updated
However, I’ve not seen any conformation of this, nor do I have any idea when the numbering changes (though perhaps again with a new number sequence?)


Tobias has noted that an 8x42 EDG he recently acquired is significantly brighter than a previous unit, see here: http://www.greatestbinoculars.com/index.html
And this may provide a clue:
- when upgrading the coatings on it’s mid-priced EII Porro line, Nikon may have been mindful to not give the EII’s higher transmission
than the high-priced LX/ HG/ HGL and EDG roof prism lines which started in 1997
- but now with superior transmission added to the EDG, the EII may have been correspondingly upgraded

continued . . .

Click to expand...

John,

Based on several months use/comparison, it appears to me the coatings on my Anniversary 8x30 and recently purchased 10x35, serial number 020314 AM, are the same, i.e. it does appear you are correct that the more recent 10x35 have the upgraded coatings as well.

Mike

Hi Mike,

Thanks for confirming my speculation about the 10x35 version


EII 10x35 Numbering
Again based on my observation, there appears to be 3 main ranges for the 10x35 in the following order:
A) 300,235 to 300,515 (a briefly used initial range)

B) 000,024 to 008,201 (the bulk of observed production)

C) 020,015 (a newly introduced range)


Numbering of Updated Coating on EII 10x35
Mike’s observations about unit #020,314 would seem to confirm that the new coating started to be used, either from or shortly after, the introduction of the new number range at #020,000


- - - -
EII Production and Popularity
Looking at the numbering for each model, production is:
- 8x30 around 18,000 units
- 10x35 around 10,000 units

So the total production over the 21 years since 1999 is less than 30,000 units, with the 8x30 being roughly twice as popular as the 10x35
And averaged over the period, production is less than 1,500 units per year
(by comparison, the Swarovski Habicht Porro's actual production is currently around 2,000 units per year)

And while the EII has a cult status particularly within the birding community, it’s clearly a niche item
This of course reflects the widespread preference for roof prism models both for birding and other activities

However, that was not always the case . . .

Earlier E Series': Numbering, Production and Popularity
In contrast to the EII, previous versions of the E series were far more popular, and increasingly so as one goes back in time - when they were Nikon's premium binocular line

Bear in mind that prior to the introduction of phase coating on roof prism binoculars (developed and first used by Zeiss in 1988), it was not possible for roof prisms to equal the sharpness of Porro prisms
And the availability of affordable roof prism models of good optical quality, that we now take for granted, did not commence until the first decade of the 21st century

So as context for many, and nostalgia for some . . .


A) Multi Coated E Series - from 1988 to 1998 (90k+ over 11 years)
- 8x30 from 400k: 400,174 - 448,643+ (48k+)

- 10x35 from 600k: 600,542 to 615,676+ (15k+)

- 7x35 from 200k: 200,347 to 217,591+ (17k+)

- 12x40 from 800k: 800,204 to 811,718+ (11k+)


B) Single Coated E Series - 1978 to 1987 (180k+ over 10 years)
- 8x30 from 880k: 880,276 to 936,734+ (56k+)

- 10x35 from 110k: 114,772 to 153,420+ (43k+)

- 7x35 from 770k: 770,100 to 818,427+ (48k+)

- 12x40 from 660k: 661,428 to 693,341+ (33k+)


John


p.s. again the numbering is from my observations

"Since then I have done some further research, and have observed the following numbering for the EII 8x30
There appears to be 4 number ranges, in the following order:
A) 500,168 to 503,768 (the same range was also initially used for the SE 8x32)
B) 800,001 to 811,585 (800,001 is from a Nikon stock image)
C) 820,083 to 821,471 (a Nikon stock image for the below Anniversary units is numbered 821,110 - see attached)
D) 081,507 to 081,923 (for the 400 units of the 100th Anniversary Edition, issued July 2017) *"


I just received my new 8x30 E11 (Amazon had two, this one was shipped from Germany)
The serial number is 821612.
I was wondering what the last production serial number was?

Latest 8x30 EII Numbering

Hi CharleyBird,

The regular production sequence for the 8x30 EII goes from A) to B) to C) - which is the current number range
[the D) sequence relates solely to the Anniversary Edition]

Regarding the C) sequence, we know that:
- the new/ current coating has been used since at least 821,029 (see the info from Andy/ dries1 in post #7)
- and your 821,612 is the most recent known production!


John

Ok Thanks.
It comes with a snazzy strap with the wording "Nikon since 1917" (and a rather nice Chinese made plastic carry case)

John:
Do you have any first hand experience with these Nikon models ?

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

I assume you mean the model with the latest coatings? No, mine’s an earlier model. So I lack any first-hand experience of how significant the change is

And I must admit that I’m not inclined to buy one. As hard as I’ve tried, I just don’t get on anywhere near as well with my 8x30 EII as I do with my Habicht, or even my earlier multi-coated Nikon E

When using my EII, I can intellectually appreciate the field of view for what it is, but it just doesn’t give me an ‘Ahh!’ - let alone a ‘WOW!’ (unlike for example my 7x42 Zeiss Victory FL)


John

John A Roberts said:

Hi Jerry,

I assume you mean the model with the latest coatings? No, mine’s an earlier model. So I lack any first-hand experience of how significant the change is

And I must admit that I’m not inclined to buy one. As hard as I’ve tried, I just don’t get on anywhere near as well with my 8x30 EII as I do with my Habicht, or even my earlier multi-coated Nikon E

When using my EII, I can intellectually appreciate the field of view for what it is, but it just doesn’t give me an ‘Ahh!’ - let alone a ‘WOW!’ (unlike for example my 7x42 Zeiss Victory FL)

John

Click to expand...

Not having owned or used a binocular never stopped folks from commenting - so feel free to offer your perspective as you see fit!

I have tried a 100th anniversary model and would agree, having looked through an 8x30 Habicht a little earlier, that the latter seemed brighter to me. Sadly the EII doesn't work for me - eye relief is insufficient for me to use it with glasses, and it won't focus sufficiently beyond infinity for me to use it without. I love these small classic porros and wish mine were multi-coated like the EII. I'd really like to look through an E series.

John A Roberts said:

Hi Jerry,

I assume you mean the model with the latest coatings? No, mine’s an earlier model. So I lack any first-hand experience of how significant the change is

And I must admit that I’m not inclined to buy one. As hard as I’ve tried, I just don’t get on anywhere near as well with my 8x30 EII as I do with my Habicht, or even my earlier multi-coated Nikon E

When using my EII, I can intellectually appreciate the field of view for what it is, but it just doesn’t give me an ‘Ahh!’ - let alone a ‘WOW!’ (unlike for example my 7x42 Zeiss Victory FL)


John

Click to expand...

John:

I was just wondering if you have enjoyed the view through the EII. I have posted my thoughts on another thread a while back about my experience with the EII, and I have several examples, mostly newer.
There are some small coatings changes, only visible from a reflection from the objective lenses.
In my opinion, I could not find any differences in brightness or otherwise among any of them, and that includes the newest Anniversary version.

Tobias seems to have some reviews that are interesting, but I do not agree with him in some respects, such as his review of the EII.
He admitted his recall comparing an older model, from memory. That is not reliable in any regard. That means a side by side comparison is important, see my photo.

I also have experience with several Nikon SE 8x32 models from older to newer, and there I could see some differences that showed some better brightness in the newer models, with updated coatings.

One thing I would like to say, is the EII is a very good binocular, and in my testing, it is brighter in last light than the larger Nikon SE 8x32.
I think the wider FOV does come into play, it helps illuminate the entire view.

Jerry

Patudo said:

Not having owned or used a binocular never stopped folks from commenting - so feel free to offer your perspective as you see fit!

I have tried a 100th anniversary model and would agree, having looked through an 8x30 Habicht a little earlier, that the latter seemed brighter to me. Sadly the EII doesn't work for me - eye relief is insufficient for me to use it with glasses, and it won't focus sufficiently beyond infinity for me to use it without. I love these small classic porros and wish mine were multi-coated like the EII. I'd really like to look through an E series.

Click to expand...

I agree with you. I have a current issue 8x30 EII and I like it for it's wide FOV but it is not as bright as the Habicht. The EII's color bias is more towards the red spectrum and the Habicht is more neutral. They both have their advantages. The EII is more user friendly with an easier focuser and more comfortable eye cups.

Dennis, your last post which seems to have disappeared unfortunately was quite correct on both points.

Hi Jerry (post #17),

It’s not that I actively dislike my 8x30 EII, it's just for me that it’s lacking in comparison to other binoculars
In particular, for whatever reason the width of the FOV is a distraction rather than a delight - in marked contrast to my 7x42 FL’s
(it’s hard to pin down why, but the view is not ‘homogenous’ in the same way that it is with the Zeiss)

If the EII was the only binocular that I had, it would be perfectly useable
But like many of us, I'm fortunate to have the luxury of being able to dabble and then choose what pleases me the most


In relation to transmission (verses perception), it's clear that different manufacturers take fundamentally different approaches
For instance we know from Gijs’ data, that when comparing Swarovski, Zeiss and Leica binoculars, the Leica's consistently have lower transmission

It’s obviously not because Leica’s incapable of increasing transmission, but that they intentionally choose a different approach to image quality
e.g. they place a greater stress on managing the light in the optical system, when it’s outside of the glass components, by the use of blackening, baffling and stops
- which in turn is the basis for many of Tobias’ more subtle observations/ preferences as to image character


And likewise in relation to Nikon, their relatively low Porro transmission levels (particularly vs Swarovski Porros) must again be a matter of choice rather than incapability
We also know from Gijs’ data (post #3) that previously there have been variations to the EII’s transmission, so I’m not at all surprised you’ve had similar experiences over time with various copies of the SE

Of course what we really need now is for Gijs to test a current production 8x30 (preferably numbered after #821,029) to provide some hard data


John