Kowa TE-Z9 zoom EP on old Kowa 823/4? (1 Viewer)

JulianSanchez · Mar 2, 2016

Hi folks!
After some discussion in this thread about the purchase of a "new" scope for me, which could easily be renamed "poor man´s Kowa 883",

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=319666

it looks like I am about to get an old Kowa 824, with the next "extras" taken from another source;

- EC1 adapter, to fit 60/66/82 EP´s.
- TE-Z9 20-60x zoom.
- 50x 820 series fixed EP.
- 20x 820 series fixed EP.
- Kowa TSE-Z7C 20-60X 820 series zoom (latest version, usually fitted on M series).

As you can see, the only (and important) EP missing would be the 32x WIDE EP, difficult to find.

The most important question to me is; will the more modern TE-Z9 zoom (attached to the EC1 adapter) work better than the TSE-Z7C (with no adapter)? I guess it will be so, but would like to share some thoughts and opinions about it with someone who tried them in the flesh. The EC1 adapter modifies the mag or some other parameter of the view?.
If the Z9+EC1 adapter performance is better, I will get rid of the Z7C zoom.

I know some Opticron zooms could be fitted as well.

Another question to add is that while having the EC1 adapter and planning to get a 30X fixed eyepiece, would the more modern fixed 60/66/82 series EP work better than the old fixed 820 series EP?. I am talking about the 30x TE-17W and 14WD vs the 32x TSE-14WB.

Thanks a lot dear mates B

Any opinion shall be welcome.

jring · Mar 2, 2016

Hi,

the two zooms look very similar from the data, so if the old one is ok, that is sharp at 60x, I would not consider the new one. A bit darker image at 60x is to be expected due to the exit pupil being very small...

The modern 30 wide is very nice and should work fine, although I would not get it if I had the 20x and 50x...

Joachim

JulianSanchez · Mar 2, 2016

jring said:
Hi,

the two zooms look very similar from the data, so if the old one is ok, that is sharp at 60x, I would not consider the new one. A bit darker image at 60x is to be expected due to the exit pupil being very small...

The modern 30 wide is very nice and should work fine, although I would not get it if I had the 20x and 50x...

Joachim

Thanks Joachim.
I got both zooms on my desk.
I am waiting for the scope body to try them and compare

Grando · Mar 2, 2016

Hi Julian, there's no difference optically between the 30x for the 660 series and the 32x for the 820 series. I've used both on my 824 (I also have a 663, so have both types). The newer version has the plastic twist-up eye up which gives more eye relief, but I can't tell much, if anything, between them. Great choice of scope - glad you managed to find an 824 in Spain. If you can get the 50x eyepiece I don't think you'll really need the 20-60 zoom.
Cheers!

JulianSanchez · Mar 2, 2016

Grando said:
Hi Julian, there's no difference optically between the 30x for the 660 series and the 32x for the 820 series. I've used both on my 824 (I also have a 663, so have both types). The newer version has the plastic twist-up eye up which gives more eye relief, but I can't tell much, if anything, between them. Great choice of scope - glad you managed to find an 824 in Spain. If you can get the 50x eyepiece I don't think you'll really need the 20-60 zoom.
Cheers!

Thanks a lot Ed. It is been a pitty not to be able to get the 824 from yours.
Anyway I appreciate your help and good mood to try it

These are the EP´s received. As you can see, the TE-9Z is lacking the eyecup.
The 820 M series zoom is a bit fatter, but the exit eye seems narrower;

https://www.flickr.com/photos/59765085@N06/25354061101/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/59765085@N06/25328201602/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/59765085@N06/25353492351/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/59765085@N06/24816455164/in/dateposted-public/

Cannot upload images with the web interfaz apparently due to excess of load!!

Grando · Mar 2, 2016

No worries Julian! If you can get the new twist-up 21x eyepiece it's an awesomely wide view. That eyepiece along with the 50x or 20-60x probably means you dont need to rush to get a 32x, though i personally think the 32x fixed is the eyepiece i end up using 99% of the time (and even if i one day get an 883 i will get a fixed 30x to go with it)! Enjoy your new scope!

mayoayo · Mar 2, 2016

The new version on the 32x ,with the twist up eyecup ,is very very nice...better eye relief and large glass surface makes an easier eye placement,and the eyepiece is sharp and beautiful,but is expensive and hard to find,and honestly is behind the wide swaro 30x in optical quality..thats why i made a swaro adapter for my 823¡¡¡..unfortunately i havent been able to afford a swaro 30x ww yet to try it¡

JulianSanchez · Mar 2, 2016

Grando said:
No worries Julian! If you can get the new twist-up 21x eyepiece it's an awesomely wide view. That eyepiece along with the 50x or 20-60x probably means you dont need to rush to get a 32x, though i personally think the 32x fixed is the eyepiece i end up using 99% of the time (and even if i one day get an 883 i will get a fixed 30x to go with it)! Enjoy your new scope!

Hi Ed, the 20x I´ve got is this one (820 series). The piece of glass seems extremely wide!!;

https://www.flickr.com/photos/59765085@N06/25084027939/in/dateposted-public/

JulianSanchez · Mar 2, 2016

mayoayo said:
The new version on the 32x ,with the twist up eyecup ,is very very nice...better eye relief and large glass surface makes an easier eye placement,and the eyepiece is sharp and beautiful,but is expensive and hard to find,and honestly is behind the wide swaro 30x in optical quality..thats why i made a swaro adapter for my 823¡¡¡..unfortunately i havent been able to afford a swaro 30x ww yet to try it¡

Hi Mayo, do you refer to the last 820 32x eyepiece?

How would this one (60/66/82 series) work attached to the EC1? The EC1 modifies something regarding the view; mag? FAV?;

http://opticaroma.com/producto/kowa-fijo-30x-wide-para-series-606682-sv/3287/

Thanks all dear mates!!

JulianSanchez · Mar 2, 2016

- Regarding the zoom comparative;
the 820M series zoom (TSN-Z7C) get between 17´5 and 35 mts of fied of view at 1000mts (at 60x and 20x respectively), and the TE-9Z performance very similar; 33´5-17´5 mts; so the 820 series zoom provides a little bit wider field at close mags.
I think I´ll keep the sharpest/brightest at 60x, as Joachim said.

- regarding the 30X comparative; the 60/66/82 series would beat the old 820 32x series in FOV; 2´4º and 41 mts (at 1000m) against 2´2º and 38mts, with identical brightness data.

What disturbs me a lot is; does the EC1 adaptor itself modify the 60/66/82 eyepieces performance in any way?

B

Grando · Mar 3, 2016

Julian, rest assured the EC1 adapter makes no difference to the eyepieces - it just allows you to screw them in. Obviously though theres a difference in focal lengths between the 660 and 820 scopes (420mm vs 450mm); this explains why a 20x on a 660 is 21x on the 820, and why a 30x is 32x etc. this also explains the difference in fov stats between the 30 and 32x eyepiece you list above. Optically, i think the eyepieces are the same. The exception is the 820-series zoom which is definitely optically different. In fact your 660 series zoom eyepiece will be something like a 21-65x zoom with the adapter on the 824.

JulianSanchez · Mar 3, 2016

Grando said:
Julian, rest assured the EC1 adapter makes no difference to the eyepieces - it just allows you to screw them in. Obviously though theres a difference in focal lengths between the 660 and 820 scopes (420mm vs 450mm); this explains why a 20x on a 660 is 21x on the 820, and why a 30x is 32x etc. this also explains the difference in fov stats between the 30 and 32x eyepiece you list above. Optically, i think the eyepieces are the same. The exception is the 820-series zoom which is definitely optically different. In fact your 660 series zoom eyepiece will be something like a 21-65x zoom with the adapter on the 824.

I understand. Thanks Ed.

Do you then think the 820M zoom is optically different to the newer 9Z 60/60/82 series zoom?. Better or worse?

Thanks my friend.

Grando · Mar 3, 2016

Hi Julian. These two I haven't been able to compare directly, but I suspect there's little between them. The 820 zoom also has a newer twist-up eyecup version which I presume will have more eye relief, but I'd have thought that version will be almost identical to the new 663 zoom. Personally I think that if you have a good example of the 50x zoom and the brilliant 21x eyepiece you won't gain much from having the zoom.

One eyepiece worth keeping an eye out for though is the rare old 77x astro eyepiece for the TSN-1. Used with the converter on the 824 it becomes an 82x zoom and is surprisingly good. The old 60x fixed is excellent as well (65x on the 820) and a little sharper than the full zoom. Both are tiny little orthoscopic eyepieces, but well worth a look.

JulianSanchez · Mar 3, 2016

Grando said:
One eyepiece worth keeping an eye out for though is the rare old 77x astro eyepiece for the TSN-1. Used with the converter on the 824 it becomes an 82x zoom and is surprisingly good. The old 60x fixed is excellent as well (65x on the 820) and a little sharper than the full zoom. Both are tiny little orthoscopic eyepieces, but well worth a look.

Those ep´s would be really nice to try!!!!

Kowa TE-Z9 zoom EP on old Kowa 823/4? (1 Viewer)

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