My First Digiscoping Pictures, The Sun Came Out!, (1 Viewer)

Hello all,

Think it's been about a Week and Half since i posted, I said i was buying
a Scope, ... Which i did but have'nt been able to use it properly until Today,

Yes we had Sun here in Henley for the Afternoon ... It's true!!, lol,
So i took my first few picture's Today, I've attached them for comment's,
Not even close to the Quality you lot do but they are my first, Missed load's
of Bird's using the Timer on the 7900, Used Auto aswell as i know nothing
about Aperture,Exposure ... Shutter speed etc,
I bought the Opticron ES 80 ED with the 20-60x SDL Lense,

I Attached Baader Microstage 6030 Digital Camera Adapter,
Bought it from here ...
http://www.dhinds.co.uk/pages/fullProd.php?id=400
Nice Thread about it here too ...
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=30084

I then had the Nikon 7900 on the adapter and adjusted it to the Eyepiece,
I have'nt done any Photoshop to them ...Like Brightness,Contrast, Blur,Sharpen,Levels, etc ...
Not too sure what you do,
I took them at 7 Million Pixels, And took the picture to 800 x
600 or as close as i could in a paint package,

I have also bought a Nikon 4500 and a remote from a very nice Member on here ...
Big Thank's to John ... Really great and helpful Bloke,
So i wondered if anyBody on here has any tip's on setting the 4500 up for England,
I say England due to the Weather, Also i have no adapter as yet and using the other
adapter is very fiddly ... Still not sure if i'm doing it right lol,
But i have seen those adapter's that have a Thread in One end and a tube on the other for
the 4500, AnyOne got any D.i.y idea's for now?,

I did try the 4500 for a bit but it has so much more feature's than a 7900 that i got a bit
confused :h?: , The screen is smaller than the 7900 and what i thought was focused generally
was'nt, When i looked at the picture on the PC ... It was'nt as sharp as it looked on the 4500
Screen on the back, Quite blurred ... I'm doing something wrong i know lol, Taking a picture
on the 4500 without the Scope is great on auto ... Lovely picture, ... So i know i have no
clue what to set when attached to the Scope, Read Andy's Tip's but got a little lost as i
really am new to this Camera stuff ... I'm a Macro and Auto compact digital Camera user lol,
Also using the Scope indoor's out of the Window with the window open has'nt worked too well
... As we have Radiator's in every room, Live in the Country and is very cold outside,
When i focus on anything outside ... It blur's in and out ... Due to the heatescaping into the cold,
Even if you don't use the Scope and just look out the open window ... and focus on a Tree ...
You can see the image slightly wobble due to the heat ... Bit like a heatwave on a road effect type
of thing, So a bit frustrating, Anyone else ever had that?,
Please leave crit's on the picture's ... it will help me load's,
Anyway ... Sorry for the long message,
Big Thank's,
Tc,
John,

Hi Modular

I noticed other people have look at your pics and not commented so here is mine.

Your pics look pretty good for first timers, they are relatively sharp with no vignetting and I'm sure you will get better as you practice with different settings. Perhaps a member with experience of the 2 cameras will be able to advise better on a settings for you, as I am a newy to digiscoping as well.

How do you like your scope is it as good as you expected?
What do you think about the eyepiece? Some people prefer the HDF over the SDL.

Happy birding
Paul

John, what kind of tripod are you using,is it steady enough. I have the same scope but SLR camera and still have problems getting the right setting. [still learning].hb

Hello Paul,

We spoke before i'm sure ... As you can see it's my first test,
Weather as been awful ain't it lol,
To be honest i've never used or seen a HDF yet ... But i've heard they
are the One's to use, The 32x and 20x are mentioned a lot,
The One i've bought is the "New" version so i would'nt like to get a HDF
and end up getting something that won't be as good or would'nt be better
for some thing's, As it would be a waste of cash, So no idea if HDF is better
for Digiscoping than the SDL "New" version ... Reason i say new is because
Opticron change their product's all the Time and i have no idea if this is
better for Digiscoping over the HDF ... Compared to the Old SDL,
Guess i should find out what "New" mean's,

I really should learn the 4500 as i've heard so many good thing's about this
and Digiscoping, You know any good Site's for that?,
What you using anyway ...
Like to hear how your getting on as your new to this like me,

Anyway Take care all,
John,

Henry B said:

John, what kind of tripod are you using,is it steady enough. I have the same scope but SLR camera and still have problems getting the right setting. [still learning].hb

Click to expand...

Actually ... I have'nt got a Tripod, I got a free Hide Clamp with the Scope ...
So i use that on the Window sill's for now, They've got rubber padding so
does'nt damage the sill, I am struggling myself i must admit, Hide clamp's
just don't work well in the House lol,
But the construction is not bad ... It's the Opticron Hide clamp,

I think the biggest problem i have is when i get to the Bird i want to focus
on ... I tighten the handle and the scope move's slightly Up , Down , Left ,
Or Right, Mainly Up to be honest ... then the subject is at the Bottom ...
probably only see it's head, Do these Expensive Tripod's eliminate that?,
I'm very curious what you get when you Buy a expensive tripod and also
an expensive head,
Well ... I guess it's all about practice and learning ... Good luck on your
setting's ... I know i've got to learn too,
Take care,
John,

John check out some of the tripod threads on here.

Jonh

Glad you like your set up.Here's a link to some info and pics I've taken and alot of discussion about my camera A620.http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=47808

Hi John, try Andy Brights website for information on digiscoping.

In the meantime here is a list of the most popular settings used on the 4500 and what they do.

Your pictures are very good, but could be made to look better with some post processing - this is something you will have to get to grips with as it can be as important as taking the picture. It's a slow learning curve so I won't go into details but if you need help keep posting and you will get all the help you need.

A couple of other points to get better pictures is to get a good tripod and a cable release.

Coolpix 4500 setings
Shooting menu

White balance - Auto works very well.
Metering – spot AF area – combines the area being metered with the focus area.
Shooting – continuous – you can still take single shots but it’s there if needed.
Bss – off
Image adjustment – normal
Saturation – normal
Image quality – fine
Image size – full 2272 x 1704
User settings – some parameters can be set to other options for different conditions
Image sharpening – high - some use no sharpening but I prefer to use the quality of the lens and give less sharpening in your image editor ie photoshop etc.
Lens – normal - only change this if adding a converter
Exposure options – AE lock off
Focus options – AF area mode – manual – this allows you to move the focus area to one of 5 points on the screen, shown by the red brackets, useful when the bird is not in the centre of the screen or you don’t want it in the centre.
Auto focus mode - single AF
Zoom options – digital tele - off, choose select last position if you want the zoom to start up at the position the camera was turned off instead of at zero zoom.
Speedlight – pop up - manual, variable power 0, control int & ext active
Auto bracketing – off
Noise reduction – off

Set up menu

Monitor options – display – monitor on, brightness central position but adjust up or down if required
Func controls – leaving the Func button set to exposure compensation is the most useful option here, adjustments can be made easily for over/under exposure without having to go into the menu.
Auto off – camera switches off after the preset time selected, I go for 5mins.
Seq numbers – on – this gives continuous numbering to shots instead of resetting to 1 each time you use another CF card, can cause confusion when trying to find your pics on the computer afterwards if set to off.
Shutter sound – on – useful to have a little beep when taking shots
CF card format – use to format your CF cards for your camera, it pays to reformat your cards every now and then, can also be used to wipe all images off a card instead of using delete all.
Date – set date and time for pic information, gives you a record in the shooting data
Shot confirmation – off
Info text – on – this stores the shooting data of each shot taken and can be really useful for analysis afterwards.
Video mode – pal for most if not all Europe tv’s
Language –
Disable delete – off
Usb – mass storage

Use the ISO button to select ‘film’ speed, for best quality keep at 100 unless really necessary, i.e. light is so poor you need the extra shutter speed 200 will give you.
Manual Focus – practice a lot with this, it is really useful when foliage, etc. is in the way of the bird, also it speeds up shooting as you don’t have to wait for the camera to autofocus. I set the distance scale just below infinity which seems to give me the best results.


I know it seems a lot of settings but if you want to get the best out of the camera, and digiscoping, you need to get to know them.

good luck

John

John check out some of the tripod threads on here

Click to expand...

I did go on the Scope/Tripod/Head Forum ... Very interesting ... It was
mainly about Scope's, Don't think i read anything about Tripod's but One
thing i did see was very helpful ... When you undo the handle to swivel
the Scope around ... obviously the weight of the Camera and Adapter
unbalance the Scope ... All the weight being at the back, So then i
learnt that you can buy a plate that goes on the Scope tripod thread
and can be adjusted back and forward until you get it balanced ...
With that in place and then on the tripod ... When you undo the handle
this Time ... The Scope does'nt does'nt feel heavy on the back,
I'm 99% sure anyOne that read's this already know's this balance thing,
I did'nt at all ... Lot of learning in this Digiscoping, It's not just about the
Scope and Camera ... I'm starting to realise that a Good Tripod is essential
for stillness and smoothness,
Thank's for pointing me to that thread ... It helped more than you know ...
Do you reckon these plate's can be Homemade?,

Glad you like your set up.Here's a link to some info and pics I've taken and alot of discussion about my camera A620.http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=47808

Click to expand...

Your picture's are really turning out nice ... It's nice that you have the
same setup as me regarding the Scope and eyepiece, Got to say ...
I was very impressed with them A620 picture's ... Take's a very crisp
picture, ... By the way ... Has that Adapter you bought have a thread
attachment for the Camera?, I'm also very curious about HDF ... Think if
i buy One it will be fixed at 32x or lower ... Heard they are better than
Zoom HDF, Anyway when you have some new picture's please show them ...
Like to see your result's with the Scope, ,

Coolpix 4500 setings

Click to expand...

Well i sat there last Night setting all my Camera up exactly like you said ...
going to try it out after this post, Thank You so much for taking the Time
out to give me all these setting's, They will help a lot,
Your right about the Photoshop stuff ... Guess there's no One way to touch
your picture up,
Still not sure what Shutter/F number is the best to use ... Guess that's down
to the light, But what would be a Normal setting for Shutter and F number on
a bright and Sunny Day?, .... Would it be nearer 1/2000 or 8?, ... Would the F number be nearer 2.8 or 10?, ... A basic idea would be a lot of help as i
have no idea at all, Not sure there is a basic idea lol,


EveryOne as helped load's so Thank's,
Think i'm going to put an Ad in the Selling/Buying section,
Need some stuff, ,

Tc,
John,

John

My adapter does'nt have a thread, I had made from SRB Film for the camera to fit into.

Here are some pics as requested.

Well i sat there last Night setting all my Camera up exactly like you said ...
going to try it out after this post, Thank You so much for taking the Time
out to give me all these setting's, They will help a lot,
Your right about the Photoshop stuff ... Guess there's no One way to touch
your picture up,
Still not sure what Shutter/F number is the best to use ... Guess that's down
to the light, But what would be a Normal setting for Shutter and F number on
a bright and Sunny Day?, .... Would it be nearer 1/2000 or 8?, ... Would the F number be nearer 2.8 or 10?, ... A basic idea would be a lot of help as i
have no idea at all, Not sure there is a basic idea lol,


John, when you first switch on the camera, in aperture priority mode, and zoom back to minimum zoom the aperture you see on the screen should be f2.6, if it is higher than this use the command dial to lower it. This has then set the lowest aperture for the camera zoom range and will give you the highest shutter speed available for the lighting conditions. From now on it will look after itself quite well. When you are more familiar with camera controls you can start to experiment but for now I should let the camera do it, you will be able to concentrate more on focusing, making sure the tripod is steady etc.

regards

john

John I also use the settings above, as recommended by yourself and Andy. My problems is that using Aperture Priority, I never seem to be able to get the shutter settings correct, and mostly my pictures appear dark or washed out.

I have noted your recommendations for setting the aperture initially, but I do find that difficult as I move around, or take my camera off the scope etc.. and generally forget to reset the F stops.

Why can't I just use the P setting of the camera, or maybe choose one of the presets such as landscape etc.. and let the camera take care of itself??

mickporter said:

John I also use the settings above, as recommended by yourself and Andy. My problems is that using Aperture Priority, I never seem to be able to get the shutter settings correct, and mostly my pictures appear dark or washed out.

I have noted your recommendations for setting the aperture initially, but I do find that difficult as I move around, or take my camera off the scope etc.. and generally forget to reset the F stops.

Why can't I just use the P setting of the camera, or maybe choose one of the presets such as landscape etc.. and let the camera take care of itself??

Click to expand...

Mick, setting the aperture to f2.6 at minimum zoom need only be done the once unless you alter the aperture manually with the command dial, it does not need to be done every time you use the camera, so the shutter speed will look after itself. If your results are too dark make sure you haven't got some exposure compensation added, normally what you see on the monitor with the first 1/2 press of the shutter is what your pic is going to be like for exposure - perhaps you have a lot of sky, or water, etc in your pics and the meter is exposing of this leaving the subject underexposed.

edit- modular has just jogged my memory - if you have Fixed Aperture on this could also give you underexposed and muddy pics, turn it off.

There is no reason you can't use P mode, or auto if it comes to that, but you won't be getting the best out of the camera.
Try the other modes and the scene modes and see if any suit you better.

regards

john

Hello All,
Again Thank's for all the Info,

I tried your setting but was getting a lot of blur ... More than i would with the 7900 ...
So obviously i have something set wrong in Manual, There's no exposure compensation added,

Focus Confirmation is ON ... Not sure if that has to be off etc,
Fixed Aperture is ON ... Not sure if that has to be off etc,

I also got my Picture right in Manual Mode ... Focused it manually then took the
picture ... The picture Once uploaded to the PC did'nt look as sharp as the LCD,
The LCD's are small on these 4500's,
The "User Setting" is alway's on 1, 2, or 3 ... Can you turn that off completely?,

Anyway ... Just a few little question's that will help me, :t: ,
Thank's so much,
Tc,
John,

Here's some Picture's i took Today with the 7900 ... Late Afternoon so
light not good ... Were having a few Sunny Minute's more so lately,

I tried sharpening them etc ... Not a very good job,
Tc,
John,

Modular said:

Hello All,
Again Thank's for all the Info,

I tried your setting but was getting a lot of blur ... More than i would with the 7900 ...
So obviously i have something set wrong in Manual, There's no exposure compensation added,

Focus Confirmation is ON ... Not sure if that has to be off etc,
Fixed Aperture is ON ... Not sure if that has to be off etc,

I also got my Picture right in Manual Mode ... Focused it manually then took the
picture ... The picture Once uploaded to the PC did'nt look as sharp as the LCD,
The LCD's are small on these 4500's,
The "User Setting" is alway's on 1, 2, or 3 ... Can you turn that off completely?,

Anyway ... Just a few little question's that will help me, :t: ,
Thank's so much,
Tc,
John,

Click to expand...

John, glad you ploughed through the settings, hell of a lot isn't there.

Focus confirmation can be on or off it doesn't matter a lot with the small 4500 screen but Fixed Aperture should be off to allow the aperture to change as you zoom the camera, you will get underexposed pics otherwise.

(Note for mickporter - if you're reading this Mick check this is off on your camera, could be your problem if it is on).

Regarding the User Settings - the setings you've made go into setting 1 and 1 should be displayed at the top left of the screen to show you are using them, I should forget 2 and 3 for now, they can be useful for certain things but that can come later when you're more familiar with what the settings do.

John, you're going to get a lot of blurred pictures due to camera shake, bird movement, branch movement etc. etc. don't be put off by it, it's all part of high magnification photography, try to get a solid base for your tripod (tarmac, concrete instead of grass etc), try to get out of the wind, give the scope a few seconds to settle down after touching it, etc. all these things and more make a difference to image blur, and perhaps most of all practice at every opportunity you get, not only on birds but on static objects, and you gradually get to know what to do right and what not to do wrong.

cheers for now

john

Thanks John, I have checked my settings and will give it another whiz tomorrow. I think my fixed aperture setting may have been one I have just altered, I will find out. Maybe some of my problems come from light and reflections, as lots of my pictures are taken of ducks or from hides where I cannot change my position with respect to the sun or light........ Often my birds appear as silouetes (not sure how to spell that!) against a light background. Is there a way to combat this??

One thing you haven't mentioned John is the setting with the flower or infinity. I have always stuck to the flower as recommened by Andy. It seems wrong to my mind but have queried it with him and he confirms it gives him the best results, and with my limited experience I have to say he is probably right.

To the other John, firstly my apologies for hi-jacking your thread, but some of our experiences appear similar. As to your camera shake, I do assume you are using a remote lead to take your pictures?? You will never have a sharp picture trying to capture a shot by pressing the button by hand.
John (the wise), is also right when he says that absolute sharpness probably never can be achieved. That is because the subject will never keep still! If its sat on water or on a twig, the bird will be moving in the breeze or on the ripples!! And on all sites I have tried to take pictures I find the birds are so badly trained they will not stop for one moment to pose and give me their best sides!!!!

I truly admire those people who manage to capture birds in flight... However to they do that with all this to think about??

mickporter said:

Thanks John, I have checked my settings and will give it another whiz tomorrow. I think my fixed aperture setting may have been one I have just altered, I will find out. Maybe some of my problems come from light and reflections, as lots of my pictures are taken of ducks or from hides where I cannot change my position with respect to the sun or light........ Often my birds appear as silouetes (not sure how to spell that!) against a light background. Is there a way to combat this??

One thing you haven't mentioned John is the setting with the flower or infinity. I have always stuck to the flower as recommened by Andy. It seems wrong to my mind but have queried it with him and he confirms it gives him the best results, and with my limited experience I have to say he is probably right.

To the other John, firstly my apologies for hi-jacking your thread, but some of our experiences appear similar. As to your camera shake, I do assume you are using a remote lead to take your pictures?? You will never have a sharp picture trying to capture a shot by pressing the button by hand.
John (the wise), is also right when he says that absolute sharpness probably never can be achieved. That is because the subject will never keep still! If its sat on water or on a twig, the bird will be moving in the breeze or on the ripples!! And on all sites I have tried to take pictures I find the birds are so badly trained they will not stop for one moment to pose and give me their best sides!!!!

I truly admire those people who manage to capture birds in flight... However to they do that with all this to think about??

Click to expand...

HI Mick,
Glad to hear you've found your problem, hopefully better results are on the way.
Regarding the shooting into the light there's not a lot you can do that will give really good results, you can try to get more of the bird in the focusing/metering rectangle if it's not too distant, or you can use exposure compensation to overexpose (+) for the bird but the background gets it too and you would have to tone this down in photoshop etc. or use a manual exposure, but generally the results aren't very good anyway, try to get closer someway is the best advice.

Andys' advice is always good, he found using macro (flower symbol) worked well for him, I started off not using it and just carried on that way - as he says there are different ways of getting the same result. Like all these things try it and see if it works for you.
Although using macro works for the coolpixs I don't think it will be so successful with the newer external zoom cameras.

regards

john

Hi modular, those are absolutley fantastic pictures you have got there my digi scoping attempts are useless! Nothing compared to yours. Well done. :clap:

I tried the new settings John, and voila had much much better results. Normally I get one reasonable shot out of around ten taken. I generally take a few shots continuously to ensure I get at least one decent pose from the bird. But normally just two or three pictures will be in focus or viewable. Today I have been to Martin Mere just snapping away to improve my techniques, and found with these improved settings almost all my pics were ok. Most were in focus, others will easily be enhanced in Photoshop... the birds still did not pose correctly but at least I had a choice of images that were keepers. Thanks again.....

Bye the way I did test the camera in the P mode but as you suggested the camera chose to focus the surroundings or branches rather than the birds...

One thing I did find useful which now seems obvious was that by turning the icons off the camera screen, it is much easier to fine focus the image on the camera. Sometimes all the clutter gets in the way, so best to switch that off once you are sure your settings are correct. I also found that my shooting into bright lights or water was vastly improved by using the Manual AF Area Mode setting. Actually focusing on the bird rather than the camera taking a general reading improves the birds image, leaving the water or other out of focus.

Thanks again John!