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Old Thursday 1st November 2007, 10:15   #1
lou salomon
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gulls

id, age and sex them. if you can
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Old Thursday 1st November 2007, 18:04   #2
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You're not asking much Lou!,

Do you want all 3?

Foreground bird looks like a sub-adult herring, backgound bird also looks like herring.

One in the middle is a very dark looking adult LBB type if it's not intermedius it's a Baltic fuscus.

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Old Thursday 1st November 2007, 18:06   #3
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Lesser black backed gull (middle - adult), Herring gull (back - adult) & Caspian gull (front - 2nd winter)?
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Old Thursday 1st November 2007, 20:17   #4
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Hello Lou.

Front gull has an underwing perfect for a Yellow-legged - which does look like an adult (although the upperwing is not seen here) bird - except for the bill.

http://www.ornitho.ch/index.php?m_id=54&mid=17681

http://www.ornitho.ch/index.php?m_id=54&mid=26858

Slightly different - longer grey tounges:

http://www.ornitho.ch/index.php?m_id=54&mid=19264

As I see Baltic Gull for the middle one.

Background looks like a Herring Gull.

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Old Thursday 1st November 2007, 20:22   #5
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I'd say the front bird was a 4th winter YLG, bill doesn't look adult to me and I think I can see a few brown marks along leading edge of wing
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Old Thursday 1st November 2007, 22:01   #6
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i think steve is spot on with the ylg , perhaps even 5th cy, not adult. bill, traces of dark primary coverts and even primary pattern, black reaching to p4 would be very unusal for adult ylg.
but jan of course got the species first - nice links jan as always, great wing studies, but none of these ad shows black on p4.
the one in the background most probably another (ad?)ylg, the most common lwhg in that region (and the only reg. breeder).
if jj hasn't overlooked something (he got a damn' good kittiwake for central romania at the same day&place.
what sex would you guess for the baltic (admittedly this is subdue to speculation)?
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Old Friday 2nd November 2007, 06:12   #7
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which ones (discussable)
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Old Friday 2nd November 2007, 06:51   #8
Zac Hinchcliffe
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Left
Yellow Legged Gull 4th Winter or Adult Winter, and
Right
2nd Winter Caspian Gull for me.
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Old Friday 2nd November 2007, 07:41   #9
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hm, would be interesting to hear why you think so.
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Old Friday 2nd November 2007, 07:55   #10
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and this (i'll add the wingtip after some guesses)
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Old Friday 2nd November 2007, 10:46   #11
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Caspian Gull?? Does not appear to have a very heavy bill etc...Could well be YLG.
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Old Friday 2nd November 2007, 10:49   #12
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The two in post 7 is not that easy, they could both be YLG,s although the left has some Caspian traits - like the gently drooping bill with weak gonys and a head shape - altough bull-necked and big headed - of a Caspian if you like.
The right one - a younger bird (perhaps a 2 -3rd cy) has the hang (between it´s legs) of a Caspian but could also be a YLG.

The one in post 10 could look good for YLG - wide red orbital ring, iris colour (could be seen in both - but favour YLG), bill shape difficult to see properly, could fit a large male Caspian:

http://www.ornitho.ch/index.php?m_id=54&mid=17318

but the eye looks large. Check this YLG in the background and note the small lllokking eye:

http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/87888823

Yes Lou - I did notice the mark on p4 in the first image but no problem with that since some adult YLG has a dark mark, either on the outer web or as a narrow on both webs and of course also non-adults.

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Old Friday 2nd November 2007, 15:49   #13
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Actually... i will change it to 2nd winter Yellow Legged. At First I thought the bird was noicably Leggy, but on Second Glance, I see the legs are the same length. Also, the Bill is rather Chuncky for Casp, and am I right in thinking that a Caspian Gulls Bill has Parallel sides?
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Old Friday 2nd November 2007, 16:04   #14
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whole pic with nice underwing pattern of ?
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Old Friday 2nd November 2007, 16:48   #15
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to #7: left bird looks like a female type caspian to me. slim bill and small eye, bill duller than most ad YLG but a better pic would be needed to be absolutely sure. right hand bird is difficult, bill says YLG rather than caspian, prob. 3rd winter, but could be an advanced 2nd winter as well - leg colour indicates more a 3rd; immat. caspian doesn't have yellow legs (fleshy or 'colourless' greyish).
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Old Friday 2nd November 2007, 17:13   #16
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Well there´s a good Caspian underwing pattern, long grey tounges and a black rather halfmoon like band with two large white dots at the upper end.

S. Sweden 2006.12.04 (Aron Andersson)

http://www.artportalen.se/artportale...arge/25068.jpg

http://www.artportalen.se/artportale...arge/25070.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/slisch/large_gulls

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Old Friday 2nd November 2007, 21:55   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JANJ View Post
Well there´s a good Caspian underwing pattern, long grey tounges and a black rather halfmoon like band with two large white dots at the upper end.

S. Sweden 2006.12.04 (Aron Andersson)

http://www.artportalen.se/artportale...arge/25068.jpg

http://www.artportalen.se/artportale...arge/25070.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/slisch/large_gulls

JanJ
one of the several pontic gulls roaming around the small 'port' of sfantu gheorghe, a fishermen's village at the very end of the southern branch of danube, 2 miles from the coast only. very nice pic of katrin zickendraht.
i wonder why all pics of cachinnans from central/western europe show such pigmentated irises while maybe 40% i see in the delta have lighter irises. like this which fooled even jan
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Old Saturday 3rd November 2007, 13:35   #18
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btw. for me the baltic gull looked like a male.

and these?
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Old Saturday 3rd November 2007, 17:47   #19
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According to 'GULLS' 55% of Ukrainian breeding cachinnans has a pale iris with 28% medium dark and only 17% dark iris. Conclusion - a larger % of pale-eyed birds towards E.

http://www.elisanet.fi/antero.lindho...dult_birds.htm

1. Adult Med. Gull in post 18, followed by a resting 1st winter Common Gull and a YLG/CG favouring YLG on shape, thick neck and large looking head.
2. Flying 1st winter Common Gull and below most probably 1st winter YLG.
3. Caspian/YLG favouring CG on red gonys spot not reaching upper mandible (which in some YLG it doesn´t). On the other hand there seems to be a blunter tipped bill but that´s difficult to judge in a view like this, some male CG with a huge bill can have a rather blunt-tipped bill - although not in the way usually seen in YLG with a very obvious curved tip.

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Old Saturday 3rd November 2007, 21:46   #20
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i see you don't enter the same trap twice, jan, and of course your right in being cautious, but you're right with the last pic, actually i think you have seen this pic before, i'll post it tomorrow, it's on the other calc. a worried father caspian in a very small colony in romanian moldavia. sadly the chicks (pulli) apparently were scared by some fishermen and were photographed swimming on open water.
you're prob. right with the other too, got to look closer at that canus!

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Old Sunday 4th November 2007, 07:34   #21
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see the grey tongues in the outer primaries


as for the "common gull" see ID-forum! (transilvanian gull)
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Old Sunday 4th November 2007, 10:57   #22
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Yes Lou - I remember having seen the Caspian Gull before.

Get back to the 'Common Gull' which doesn´t at all look like a Common Gull.

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Old Sunday 4th November 2007, 16:01   #23
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again olt river reservoir, late october

nice bill isn't it
edit: ok since nobody tries, here's another pic. possibly the first proven obs. of this sp. in transilvania. now
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Old Monday 5th November 2007, 15:11   #24
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not at all a small gull!
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Old Monday 5th November 2007, 21:31   #25
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Well that´s nice Lou - they are as close to us as N. Poland - just waiting to fly in at my location - you know where.

http://clanga.com/images/full/pl_okno.php?zdj=P1491.JPG

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