Code of Conduct (1 Viewer)

Simon Wates · Jun 17, 2018

hwinbermuda said:
Not at all, I just say that I don't, and others, new to bird watching (and more prone to make mistakes in identifying) should not be made to feel obliged to arduously collect data.

I like to birdwatch, I dont want my birdwatching to be overly arduous, or cause me concern that I could not record ever species in an area in ten to twenty minutes, nor worrying that I am listing a vagrant or an escapee, or how many generations of pheasants it takes for them to be cat A. BUT i know that many others enjoy that, and through Bird Forum, I can vicariously enjoy their enjoyment, without telling them they are doing it right or doing it wrong, but to feel some sense of happiness that they are doing it.

I have never totted up my life list, but have visited well over 100 countries on all continents but Antarctica, so would hazard a guess its well into four figures, but I am still overjoyed at the sight of a Bullfing in my garden. I know that my way is not the way everyone else does it, but as someone that finds it easy to become obsessive, I deliberately put parameters around it, and respect everyone else's right to do so, as well.

Kudos to the people that are conserving but I do not 'belittle' nor am I a 'disgrace'.

Judge not, lest...

I was far too hard on my comments - I think it was a bit of the grumpy old man syndrome creeping in. I think what got me antagonistic (and for that I'm dearly sorry!) is the fact that at the moment I keep seeing loads of photos (most poor) of adult birds stressed out near the nest with comments by the taker of the "pretty bird" kind. It really gets my gripe when I see the abundance of photos like these, where folk really just want to be thought of as a "nature photographer sort of expert kinda person" who obviously know Jack sh*t about sensitivity in the field and are totally immersed in there own image.

Bottom line, should have kept my mouth shut - sorry again!

On the code of conduct - all sound advice to me and I think its a great thing to encourage citizen science, though I agree that no-one should be made to feel guilty if they don't participate.

mark clements · Jun 17, 2018

@ Simon

Re. "Bottom line, should have kept my mouth shut - sorry again!" No need to apologize to me, and you've helped lead an interesting debate, of the grown-up kind that is missing from much of life.

We both love birds, the countryside and, I'd guess, being on Bird forum. That's three points in common.

We disagree over a 'flavour' of the code. No biggie.
Thank you for keeping my brain active today.

Harry:t:

Simon Wates · Jun 17, 2018

Paul Chapman said:
Simon

This seems your reading of the comments rather than the comments themselves to me. It doesn't seem like belittling to me and it certainly falls short of the disgrace level!

All the best

True Paul - wobbly moment of mine, thanks

Paul Chapman · Jun 17, 2018

Simon Wates said:
True Paul - wobbly moment of mine, thanks

We all have them. Me more than most!

The whole citizen science, wholesale data collection thing is quite interesting. I favour it though have seen what I feel are masking of population trends and declines in some moth species due to misidentifications and have been surprised to find maybe 1 in 30 bird species misidentified in ebird quizzes based on Europe. (Of course the latter may simply be upload errors. Certainly, my buzzard photo uploaded as a cormorant was! :king

All the best

Deb Burhinus · Jun 18, 2018

Code of Conduct here https://www.bto.org/sites/default/files/u10/downloads/taking-part/health/bwc.pdf

Alert Distance and Flight Initiation Distance (AD/FID) in birds varies according to species type, time of year, weather, availability of food, source of disturbance and health of the individual bird(s). Tolerance to disturbance will also vary according to above. Eg flushing waders off mudflats in the middle of winter will have a greater gap between AD and FID than likewise at the end of summer but potentially cause a higher impact. Flushing Stone Curlew or Lapwing off scrapes with eggs or chicks puts both at possibly immediate risk from corvid predation if there is already a corvid presence in area (and ‘chill’ if raining) but flushing a Snipe from long grass in December won’t have the same impact. Disturbance of Short-eared or Long-eared Owl roosts during the day will have a higher detrimental effect in winter during the day than in summer just before sundown, potentially causing them to desert a favored roost site to an area that may be less productive in winter food prey. Disturbance of larger raptors early on in the breeding season (ie mating, incubation and brooding) will have a higher impact than if disturbed with young.

In other words, know your birds, in particular, their feeding and nesting behaviour, be sensitive to signs of AD for each species and be mindful of the time of year.

I’m particularly wound up on this, this morning, following an evening of misting and ringing Nightjar. A young student photographer joined us (with permission) and spent nearly ten minutes photographing days old chicks on the ground with adults flushed off using flash and from inches away. The female was not on the chicks when flushed and spend time away from the scrape anyway, it was still light so the flash not causing harm, and it was all professionally supervised. What annoyed me was his reluctance to stop when I felt enough time had elapsed, his complete prioritisation for getting photos (more than record shots) and complete lack of apparent interest in the science of what we were doing. What concerns me is this attitude will follow him into areas where he is not supervised as he gets older. Im afraid he felt my bristling even though I said little!

Paul Chapman · Jun 18, 2018

Deb

Absolutely. But that is often lacking and as a photographing birder, it is often about listening to those little voices telling you that it is uncomfortable and time to stop. (I've always been content with rubbish photos though.)

Sadly, our local Wildlife Trust who appear to lack such knowledge and any negotiating skills have arranged my patch access straight through a high tide wader roost when for twenty years at such a state of tide I could use an inner seawall without disturbing them. They have then refused three requests to discuss matters with local birders whilst of course taking our subscriptions. We'll continue to do that for the greater good of course.

All the best

Pepe_Rojas · Jun 18, 2018

All these are valid points but it does not cover other important aspects of birding ethics, so as some other members of birdforum, I am curious to know where it this code comes from?
As a birding guide, I am VERY particular about this topic while leading tours and I put a lot of emphasis while training local guides. I normally use the ABA code of ethics (http://listing.aba.org/ethics/)

Farnboro John · Jun 18, 2018

jape said:
i know from responses i have had in the past before i took birdwatching more seriously, that if people outside of the 'hobby' discuss it, often the perception is of weird nerdy people that once would have worn anoraks and watched trains ...

You probably know this but the same sort of sub-tribes that exist in the birding community are mirrored in train-spotters, where "gricers" have been known to break into engine sheds to nail that last one of a class that they need, and twitching elusive numbers that haunt remote parts of the network is commonplace.... though not for those who specialise in steam only who would revolt at the idea of chasing diesels mechanical or electric! Plane spotters (of whom I used to be one, and still enjoy aspects of the hobby albeit without worrying too much about serials/reggies) are much the same.

They are no more weird and nerdy than we are..... ask me about the thousands roaming the country following teams of men wearing coloured uniforms and kicking a ball around while the crowds endure rain, snow, bad meat pies..... they are weird and nerdy!

John

Phil Andrews · Jun 18, 2018

Pepe_Rojas said:
All these are valid points but it does not cover other important aspects of birding ethics, so as some other members of birdforum, I am curious to know where it this code comes from?
As a birding guide, I am VERY particular about this topic while leading tours and I put a lot of emphasis while training local guides. I normally use the ABA code of ethics (http://listing.aba.org/ethics/)

Please see post #3 for those who have contributed to this British code if conduct

Deb Burhinus · Jun 18, 2018

Pepe_Rojas said:
All these are valid points but it does not cover other important aspects of birding ethics, so as some other members of birdforum, I am curious to know where it this code comes from?
As a birding guide, I am VERY particular about this topic while leading tours and I put a lot of emphasis while training local guides. I normally use the ABA code of ethics (http://listing.aba.org/ethics/)

If you go to the BTO link I put up in post #25, it gives a complete list of all the collaborating organisations.

Paul C, would they not consider a proposal to restrict access just when weather drops below a certain temperature for just that period?

mark clements · Jun 18, 2018

Deb Burhinus said:
Code of Conduct here https://www.bto.org/sites/default/files/u10/downloads/taking-part/health/bwc.pdf

Alert Distance and Flight Initiation Distance (AD/FID) in birds varies according to species type, time of year, weather, availability of food, source of disturbance and health of the individual bird(s). Tolerance to disturbance will also vary according to above. Eg flushing waders off mudflats in the middle of winter will have a greater gap between AD and FID than likewise at the end of summer but potentially cause a higher impact. Flushing Stone Curlew or Lapwing off scrapes with eggs or chicks puts both at possibly immediate risk from corvid predation if there is already a corvid presence in area (and ‘chill’ if raining) but flushing a Snipe from long grass in December won’t have the same impact. Disturbance of Short-eared or Long-eared Owl roosts during the day will have a higher detrimental effect in winter during the day than in summer just before sundown, potentially causing them to desert a favored roost site to an area that may be less productive in winter food prey. Disturbance of larger raptors early on in the breeding season (ie mating, incubation and brooding) will have a higher impact than if disturbed with young.

In other words, know your birds, in particular, their feeding and nesting behaviour, be sensitive to signs of AD for each species and be mindful of the time of year.

I’m particularly wound up on this, this morning, following an evening of misting and ringing Nightjar. A young student photographer joined us (with permission) and spent nearly ten minutes photographing days old chicks on the ground with adults flushed off using flash and from inches away. The female was not on the chicks when flushed and spend time away from the scrape anyway, it was still light so the flash not causing harm, and it was all professionally supervised. What annoyed me was his reluctance to stop when I felt enough time had elapsed, his complete prioritisation for getting photos (more than record shots) and complete lack of apparent interest in the science of what we were doing. What concerns me is this attitude will follow him into areas where he is not supervised as he gets older. Im afraid he felt my bristling even though I said little!

in this case, I would probably have had a go at him myself.
Harry

Paul Chapman · Jun 19, 2018

Deb Burhinus said:
Paul C, would they not consider a proposal to restrict access just when weather drops below a certain temperature for just that period?

The site is massively tide dependent and normally we can exercise discretion and alter timings but I have no doubt that those engaged on behalf of the Trust have no real experience of the site at all. They have point blank refused any discussion with local birders. They should have had a discussion with the landowner about the ability to use the inner seawall at that state of tide.

All the best

Code of Conduct (1 Viewer)

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