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Organised bird tours: what are your expectations? (1 Viewer)

"It seems to me that a review section for Birding Tours and Guides would be a useful addition to Birdforum."

Very dangerous! It could also be very costly in litigious societies like America. Wiser heads could understand the approach of damning by faint praise. Others could get themselves into deep guano. On balance not a good idea.

This forum already has reviews of all manner of books, optical equipment, clothing, and comments on tour companies in scattered threads. In fact the whole internet is full of everyone reviewing everything with little in the way of litigation (though I know there has been some). To suggest a subforum reviewing tour companies is unworkable or too risky ignores this reality.

Best,
Jim
 
It seems to me that a review section for Birding Tours and Guides would be a useful addition to Birdforum.

Not a great idea for several reasons, but one of them is that bird tour companies change over time, in part due to who their guides are for a given tour. Therefore, if you give grades of 1-10 based on one guide, and another leads the next tour, how fair is that.

Scopes in tropical forest depends a lot on the exact composition of the forest and the species present. Some are mostly slow moving and easily gotten onto with a scope, others are very busy and difficult to get onto. Feeding parrots often will allow good scope views, hummers rarely.

I have never been on a long trip with any company, but frequently hired guides for single days in new environments. That to me is a good way of getting guided. For a location like Galapagos, I would (and am) looking for the best company that can take me there (on a date that fits with my otherwise busy schedule), give me a good chance of seeing ALL the species, and with an enjoyable guide.

Niels

PS: I saw an announcement of a trip for birding and wine tasting in Chile. Now that sounds like an enjoyable combo ...
 
Not a great idea for several reasons, but one of them is that bird tour companies change over time, in part due to who their guides are for a given tour. Therefore, if you give grades of 1-10 based on one guide, and another leads the next tour, how fair is that.

Well, I guess if you assume birders are so ignorant that they don't know that different guides lead different tours, then it would be a bad idea.:eek!: And who said anything about giving grades? A review forum would be just like any other discussion on this forum. Lots of conflicting opinions and experiences, with a reader left to draw his own conclusions. And companies/guides themselves would also be free to respond to criticism--just as on the optics forums here.

And honestly, are you suggesting it's better to choose blindly, without knowing what past participants think of the tours by the company and/or guide? I've never been on any tour without first getting at least some review from a participant on a tour with that company. And I'd bet you'd be sure to ask any acquaintances about their experiences if you were considering going with a company and they had already been.

Best,
Jim
 
I think the issue here however is that with the other stuff you are reviewing companies, products and so on. With a sub-forum on guided tours you would be reviewing people in essence. They may in many cases work for other companies but many work only for one. Either way, their names would come up.

I have seen individual guides names pop up in various threads but in a dedicated sub-forum any guides visiting this site would know exactly where to head to see if anyone is critiquing them. Such a sub-forum would at least require a disclaimer by the mods that "The views expressed here are not necessarily ours etc etc..." Then it's up to the individual how they word their critique.

It might work... up to the mods to decide I suppose!
 
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For me the benefit of getting a guide or going on a tour is that I often have no clue whether I will return to a given area, and so going with someone who knows the area and is up to date on birding info means I am not wasting time navigating unfamiliar cities, dealing with hotels and car rentals, or spending time at places now unproductive for some target species. I am often by myself as well, so it can be less stressful if other people are present if I am traveling somewhere remote, particularly if large predators /bad roads/ or crime are involved.

Also, some places are just not going to be much cheaper than if I were to go by myself. The one tour I have been on was a summer trip to Nome, guided by a veteran birder to the area that knew all the obscure bush patches and hills for the various specialty birds.

I have also used guides when I had a free day available on a research trip, and I want to get away and see some stuff. I have done this in Japan and England, and in the next few weeks I will do this in Adelaide and Sydney. Sometimes its just the most efficient way of getting outside of a city and quickly scoring some good birds when time is on a tight budget.
 
I have also used guides when I had a free day available on a research trip, and I want to get away and see some stuff. I have done this in Japan and England, and in the next few weeks I will do this in Adelaide and Sydney.
Any chance you're popping up to Cairns?;)
 
I think the issue here however is that with the other stuff you are reviewing companies, products and so on. With a sub-forum on guided tours you would be reviewing people in essence. They may in many cases work for other companies but many work only for one. Either way, their names would come up.

No. When you are reviewing a book or article you are not reviewing a company--you are making a judgment on the author's product. And if I review the service provided by, e.g., Sunbird Tours (a UK company with many guides) much of what I say may concern the company and not an individual guide at all.

In any event, there are very successful internet sites that review individual service providers, such as home building providers. And there are already reviews of tour companies on this forum. The only difference a subforum would make would be to collect these in one place.

Best,
Jim
 
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I agree. however, that there is one thing different about reviewing a tour rather than a book. To the extent you comment on the guide's services, you are reviewing services of someone with whom you have a personal relationship--you know him or her and he knows you. That may make some people reluctant to be frank in making negative comments. But that is a personal decision. A review forum doesn't force anyone to make comments they don't wish to--it just provides an opportunity.

Best,
Jim
 
Jim, I can't decide whether you have read my posts properly or not... I have actually said that I agree with the idea of such a sub-forum. What I don't agree with you on it would seem is the nature of the critique.

It might interest you to know that I have on more than one occasion been PMed info on various guides and it's pretty personal stuff in most cases. it is as much a critique of the personality of the guide as much as the service they provide. I don't tend to see critiques of the personality of say, an author though some particularly snide critic may stoop to such lows in the less reputable journals I dare say.

To get back on topic: I didn't want this thread to become a discussion on whether such a sub-forum should or should not be created. I wanted this thread to be a discussion on people's expectations on bird tours. I would appreciate it if we could return to that topic.
 
I have been on a few organized trips, mostly to far-flung places. I've learned I like the idea of someone else handling all of the logistics for getting around a less-developed country. And if I'm traveling all that distance, I also like that the tour leaders know where the special birds are likely to be.

Where to go? I like to see new birds. I'd be lying if I said it wasn't about the list, but it's not ALL about the list. I'm also interested in exotic mammals, too. And I like to go to new countries and have new experiences. If I can combine them all, so much the better.

Comfortable lodging? Not the highest priority. I've stayed in thatched cabins with bats roosting in the thatch. I've slept in yurts where I took the mattress off the military cots and put it on the floor. My only requirement is some way to stay warm in cold climates, a hot shower every couple of days, and a mosquito net where the local fauna dictates.

As to whether it's a dedicated birding tour company as opposed to a general nature company, the answer is "dedicated birding, please." I've been on a trip with a lot of non-birding spouses. They don't know how to behave around the birds, and you wind up not seeing as much.

But if it's someplace that has significant cultural sights, I would hope that at least some time - maybe an afternoon or two - is dedicated to that, as long as the planned itinerary forewarns the group about it. For example, if you're in Samarkand, you need to spend some time visiting the Registan and some of the major tombs. But you don't need to visit every last sight in the Lonely Planet. And you better not be taken to carpet shops.

As to leaders, I would say there have been two leaders who spoiled a trip for me. One was just plain grumpy and didn't seem to like being with the group (I've met birders on other trips with that same company who had the same impression). The other wanted to be the star of the show and got noticeably upset when you tried to help the other clients get on a bird. That was his job. But I've yet to be on a trip where the leader didn't know his stuff.

This all sounds like good suggestions....I haven't done any organized trips before but when I get around to it, these suggestions make sense...
 
Any chance you're popping up to Cairns?;)

Sadly no... There are not any major collections of pinniped skeletal material present in the area

Although Cairns is in the top 5 places I would like to bird in the near future...hopefully when I get that pesky Defense/get a job problem out of the way.
 
Sadly no... There are not any major collections of pinniped skeletal material present in the area

Although Cairns is in the top 5 places I would like to bird in the near future...hopefully when I get that pesky Defense/get a job problem out of the way.
Ah right, too bad. Well I hope you enjoy your time Down Under nonetheless! Bit cold down south right now...
 
I think I can say I was on two one-day tours (I guess trips would be a better word) organized by our local organizations. My goals for the trips were:
1) to return home as healthy as possible
-goal 1a: to be alive by the end of the trip;
-goal 1b: no long-lasting or permanent health damage;
-goal 1c: to be able to go to local birding patch three days later);
2) to tick as many birds uncommon to my local patch as possible (I know what these birds are supposed to look like, I just haven't ticked them before (this year, or ever) because they were somewhere else);
3) to make some reasonably good pictures (with my cell phone :) ) so I could share them on FB and put them on screensaver/desktop.

On both trips we had a mixture of persons of various ages and birding skills so we could help each other identify uncommon species. As we had senior citizens and a few children in the groups we moved really slowly; I loved it, as young fit slim long-legged birders tend to run around at amazing speed and my high BP cannot follow their stamina (in both cases it seemed that I was somewhat impatient as I wasn't slow enough).
 
1) to return home as healthy as possible
-goal 1a: to be alive by the end of the trip;
-goal 1b: no long-lasting or permanent health damage;
Yes I'd say that I would definitely aspire to get back from organised trips in good health and preferably alive.;)

Seriously.... leisurely birding of the sort you describe is an ideal, even if it may mean missing out on some stuff.
 
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