• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Tripod Stiffness - A Primitive Comparison (1 Viewer)

Tringa45

Well-known member
Europe
I don't have the facilities to perform tests as in https://thecentercolumn.com/ but one can gain an impression of the comparitive rigidity of two or more tripods by performing a simple test.

Tripod rigidity plummets with increasing height, so adjust to identical field heights by adjusting only the bottom leg sections. This height can easily be reproduced if one marks the bottom legs with a soft pencil (graphite is a dry lubricant so will not cause any damage). The height should be your own height minus 30 cm for a straight scope or minus 50-60 cm for an angled scope.

Grab two legs about 30 cm below the apex and try to twist the tripod about the vertical axis (i.e. the centre column axis, if there is one). In most cases one can achieve a significant deflection.

For the record, my results were as follows:

1980s Aluminium Gitzo Series 4 with 37, 32 and 28 mm leg sections. No felt deflection and visibly perhaps around 1 mm in the middle of the legs.

Carbon fibre Sirui M-3204 with 32, 28, 25 and 22 mm leg sections. Very noticeable deflection compared to the big Gitzo.

Novoflex TrioPod with 2830 carbon fibre legs of 28, 25 and 22 mm diameter. Noticeable deflection but my impression was that it was somewhat less than the Sirui. This was surprising as I had to extend the 22 mm bottom leg sections further. Externally the tubes appear to be very similar and are probably also Chinese sourced.

Basalt fibre Gitzo GT2942L with 28, 24, 20 and 16 mm leg sections. This tripod is about the same weight as the Sirui but deflects two or three times as much under a similar load. Not surprising that Gitzo have now abandoned basalt fibre.

Damping can be observed through a mounted scope at higher magnification by rapping one of the tripod legs. However, I doubt that there would be significant differences between similar tripods of the same material. The trick of hanging the strap of a loaded bin bag over all three legs noticeably shortens vibration decay.

John
 
Hi John,

The trick of hanging the strap of a loaded bin bag over all three legs noticeably shortens vibration decay.

Interesting suggestion ... but I have difficulties picturing the setup. Does the strap loop around the outside of all three legs some way down from the top?

With regard to the linked site, it seems they only measure damping in the "wind-up" axis. I have no idea how representative this is for actual use conditions.

My idea always was to mount a recording accelerometer to a scope and just use it normally. I think my smartphone only records acceleration values at ca. 20 Hz, but I think I have an accelerometer chip for an Arduino around that might give better resolution.

Regards,

Henning
 
Interesting suggestion ... but I have difficulties picturing the setup. Does the strap loop around the outside of all three legs some way down from the top?

With regard to the linked site, it seems they only measure damping in the "wind-up" axis. I have no idea how representative this is for actual use conditions.

Hi Henning,

The idea was posted on birdforum years ago. The strap usually ends up somewhere near the top locks of the three tripod legs. Apart from damping vibrations, the additional weight, which is inside the tripod footprint, also lowers the centre of gravity a little.

It seems that torsional stiffness about the vertical axis is the important factor in tripod stability, witness the construction of professional video tripods with widely spaced thin tubes.

Regards,
John
 
Hi Forent,

Thanks for digging up that old thread and the illustrations. You may have noticed a few similarities to a certain John Russell, who started it ;).

In retrospect, I think the comparisons of extended legs/extended centre column were distorted by the peculiarities of the Gitzo GT 2942L with its thin flexible bottom leg sections. On the other hand these "qualities" demonstrated the effectiveness of your suggestion by drastically reducing the vibration decay.

John
 
One of the few quantitative tests of tripods (large, for surveying instruments) to be found on the internet:

https://www.franz-ulmann.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/pdfs/Prospekt Stativ.pdf

HW

Thanks for that, Hans.
It seems that wood is still the preferred material for surveyors' tripods and is superior to aluminium or fibreglass.
I found two aspects rather surprising. Firstly, that there seems to have been no cross-fertilization from Leica's excellent surveyors' tripods to their sports optics accessories. The latter, as with those of other scope manufacturers, have often left a lot to be desired.
The second surprise was the very moderate cost of these tripods, whose performance would far exceed that of most tripods used by birders. If portability is not a major consideration they would offer unrivalled stability and adapting them to take birding heads with a 3/8"x16 thread should not be too much of a problem.

John
 
Hi Hans,

One of the few quantitative tests of tripods (large, for surveying instruments) to be found on the internet:

Thanks a lot!

From a quick look, it seems to deal with long-term stability for precision measurements, not necessarily with short-term damping that's the birder's first concern (according to my impression).

It's certainly interesting that though that geodetic tripods rated for a load of less than 5 kg load come at a tripod weight of around 5 kg.

Regards,

Henning
 
From a quick look, it seems to deal with long-term stability for precision measurements, not necessarily with short-term damping that's the birder's first concern (according to my impression).

Hi Henning,

Here's a test conducted by the Technical University in Dresden: https://www.berlebach.de/anleitungen/31.pdf. It was likely commissioned by Berlebach and it's not specified which metal tripods were used for comparison.

Nevertheless, 1 second after a strong impulse the intensity (amplitude?) of vibrations in the wooden tripods had diminished by 65% and by a mere 10% in the metal tripods.

Another interesting negative aspect of the metal tripods was their multiple resonant frequencies and I suspect this could also apply to composite tripods with several leg sections. It certainly seems to be the case with my old 4-section basalt fibre Gitzo.

John
 
Hi John

Here's a test conducted by the Technical University in Dresden: https://www.berlebach.de/anleitungen/31.pdf. It was likely commissioned by Berlebach and it's not specified which metal tripods were used for comparison.

Thanks s lot! Unfortunately, it doesn't list tripod weights, but otherwise it is quite fascinating! I'll just assume the tripods were all of comparable mass so the conclusions are valid :)

Regards,

Henning
 
Thanks for that, Hans.
It seems that wood is still the preferred material for surveyors' tripods and is superior to aluminium or fibreglass.

Surveyors in fact prefer tripods with wooden legs. Mainly for longer term dimensional stability than for short term dynamic behaviour. A major concern is unilateral deformation due to sudden sun exposure. Aluminum legs are second choice only for humid environments or on construction sites, in particular inside tunnels.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I found two aspects rather surprising. Firstly, that there seems to have been no cross-fertilization from Leica's excellent surveyors' tripods to their sports optics accessories.

Leica Geosystems (Heerbrugg, Switzerland) and Leica Sportsoptics as part of Leica Camera(Wetzlar Germany) got split into two completely separate companies, today they only share their name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Heerbrugg
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The latter, as with those of other scope manufacturers, have often left a lot to be desired.

With surveying instruments tripod quality is so obviously influencing results, and therefore seriously considered as part of the system by the instrument supplier. Sportoptics manufactures just sell outsourced foto tripods under their own brand, despite requirements for foto and observation optics are not identical.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The second surprise was the very moderate cost of these tripods, whose performance would far exceed that of most tripods used by birders. If portability is not a major consideration they would offer unrivalled stability and adapting them to take birding heads with a 3/8"x16 thread should not be too much of a problem.

Surveying tripods are not only performing well stability wise. Due to their design quite different from that for cameras/observation optics, they are also more tolerant to harsh handling and cost efficient to manufacture, using few, often unnecessary dimensionally critical interfaces of their components.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

HW
 
Last edited:
Warning! This thread is more than 4 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top