james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
You really can't make a bad choice with the FL's or Conquests - both are great. Enjoy.
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Zeiss Terra ED: First Look (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ceasar
- Start date
You really can't make a bad choice with the FL's or Conquests - both are great. Enjoy.
Thanks, James -
The Victory FLs showed up in two days from Eagle - great service. Just from poking around my yard, and watching the feeders, and a cold clear view of the crescent moon, I love 'em. I lack the experience and vocabulary to describe what I am seeing in comparison to the Terras, but I know I like it.
On a parallel track, I have been an audio enthusiast my whole life, and so I am tuned into the microscopic-detail subjective analyses that you find in that world. Many, many reviews over the years have resorted to a cliche that "a veil was removed from the sound" or "everything was much clearer and I could hear details that I had not heard before". This type of thing has been repeated so much for so long in the audio world that it has become a parody of itself.
So I hate to say it, but compared to the Terras, the Victory FL removed a veil from what I was seeing, everything was much clearer, and I could see things that I had not seen before... Colors, especially.
Thanks again, and best for 2014. And onward to the Victory forum(s), I suppose.
Bruce Bender
Silver Spring, MD USA
The Victory FLs showed up in two days from Eagle - great service. Just from poking around my yard, and watching the feeders, and a cold clear view of the crescent moon, I love 'em. I lack the experience and vocabulary to describe what I am seeing in comparison to the Terras, but I know I like it.
On a parallel track, I have been an audio enthusiast my whole life, and so I am tuned into the microscopic-detail subjective analyses that you find in that world. Many, many reviews over the years have resorted to a cliche that "a veil was removed from the sound" or "everything was much clearer and I could hear details that I had not heard before". This type of thing has been repeated so much for so long in the audio world that it has become a parody of itself.
So I hate to say it, but compared to the Terras, the Victory FL removed a veil from what I was seeing, everything was much clearer, and I could see things that I had not seen before... Colors, especially.
Thanks again, and best for 2014. And onward to the Victory forum(s), I suppose.
Bruce Bender
Silver Spring, MD USA
Bruce
Those FL 8x32s are terrific, you will love them to bits.
Enjoy in good health.
Lee
brocknroller
porromaniac
Finally got a chance to try the Zeiss Terra ED today. I went to an event at the university's environmental center. It wasn't a birding event, but they did have programs about raptors and the handlers had several raptors on their arms while they talked about them - barn owl, short-eared owl, red-tailed hawk, broad-winged hawk, and a Golden Eagle (HUGE sucka!). The speaker for the Golden Eagle talk said that they have been videotaped knocking a mountain goat off a cliff to kill it and then eating it. Apparently, there's a video of this on YouTube.
Some visitors had binoculars - one garden variety Monarch, a Trailblazer, and a Terra ED. I asked the owner of the Zeiss if I could take a look and handed him my Olympus 7x21 PC III, which he was surprised was a "sharp" as it was (unlike the CL Pocket, he wasn't talking about the edges of the bridge
.
The first thing I noticed was how BIG the eyepieces were on the 8x42 Terra ED. I thought I might have trouble with the eyecups because of that, but to the contrary, the eyecups fit my face well.
The AFOV looked bigger than I had expected, given the 8x42 Terra ED's moderate 7.14* FOV. According to my ciphering, that's 57* AFOV, B&H lists 56*. Whatever it actually is, the AFOV seemed generous, more like 60*. Noticeably wider than the Monarch's looking-through-a-pipe 50.4* AFOV.
Despite being a closed bridge roof, the thick rubber, which apparently had outgassed since it didn't smell (then again, there was a strong wind and perhaps it was blowing away from me!), made it feel secure in my hands even with the lack of thumb indents (which can be a blessing or a curse, usually the latter). Good feel, heft and balance while not being too heavy. B&H lists 24.5 oz. Seemed just about perfect in that regard.
The Zeiss blue shield is so small, I almost didn't see it, and thought the bin was some other Chinese-made roof, as if Zeiss were afraid to let people know that, yes, this inexpensive roof carries the prestigious blue shield. Heck, even the Zeiss badge on my box of "Made in China" Zeiss wet wipes is larger.
So far I was liking this bin. The image seems comparable to the Monarch 5, but with better edges, and the fit and feel was good.
But as Roseanne Roseannadanna used to say: It just goes to show you, it's always something—if it ain't one thing, it's another.
For the Terra ED that "one thing" was the ultra fast focuser, which brought back memories of the Nikon 8x32 LX. The Terra ED's focuser seemed even faster, if that's possible (the LX's focuser turned from close focus to infinity in less than 1/2 turn). What's up with this? Was this made for the MTV generation, whose eyes are used to fast frame cutting TV programs? SLOW DOWN, ZEISS! But not pokey like some people have described the new SLC or like I described the first generation EL.
It shouldn't be difficult for engineers to figure out what constitutes a good balance between too fast and too slow in terms of focusing speed. I guess Zeiss must think that only younger birders are going to buy this model and that their eyes can accommodate the quick focus.
The owner, who was probably in his 20s, said that at first the speedy focuser bothered him since he had a Monarch before this, but he eventually adjusted to it. Having owned the LX, I know that my middle-aged eyes wouldn't adjust to it.
Other than that "fatal flaw," I like the rest and would recommend the Terra ED if you don't have deep pockets, or want a car bin, and your name is "Queeks" Draw McGraw.
Baba Looey
Some visitors had binoculars - one garden variety Monarch, a Trailblazer, and a Terra ED. I asked the owner of the Zeiss if I could take a look and handed him my Olympus 7x21 PC III, which he was surprised was a "sharp" as it was (unlike the CL Pocket, he wasn't talking about the edges of the bridge
. The first thing I noticed was how BIG the eyepieces were on the 8x42 Terra ED. I thought I might have trouble with the eyecups because of that, but to the contrary, the eyecups fit my face well.
The AFOV looked bigger than I had expected, given the 8x42 Terra ED's moderate 7.14* FOV. According to my ciphering, that's 57* AFOV, B&H lists 56*. Whatever it actually is, the AFOV seemed generous, more like 60*. Noticeably wider than the Monarch's looking-through-a-pipe 50.4* AFOV.
Despite being a closed bridge roof, the thick rubber, which apparently had outgassed since it didn't smell (then again, there was a strong wind and perhaps it was blowing away from me!), made it feel secure in my hands even with the lack of thumb indents (which can be a blessing or a curse, usually the latter). Good feel, heft and balance while not being too heavy. B&H lists 24.5 oz. Seemed just about perfect in that regard.
The Zeiss blue shield is so small, I almost didn't see it, and thought the bin was some other Chinese-made roof, as if Zeiss were afraid to let people know that, yes, this inexpensive roof carries the prestigious blue shield. Heck, even the Zeiss badge on my box of "Made in China" Zeiss wet wipes is larger.
So far I was liking this bin. The image seems comparable to the Monarch 5, but with better edges, and the fit and feel was good.
But as Roseanne Roseannadanna used to say: It just goes to show you, it's always something—if it ain't one thing, it's another.
For the Terra ED that "one thing" was the ultra fast focuser, which brought back memories of the Nikon 8x32 LX. The Terra ED's focuser seemed even faster, if that's possible (the LX's focuser turned from close focus to infinity in less than 1/2 turn). What's up with this? Was this made for the MTV generation, whose eyes are used to fast frame cutting TV programs? SLOW DOWN, ZEISS! But not pokey like some people have described the new SLC or like I described the first generation EL.
It shouldn't be difficult for engineers to figure out what constitutes a good balance between too fast and too slow in terms of focusing speed. I guess Zeiss must think that only younger birders are going to buy this model and that their eyes can accommodate the quick focus.
The owner, who was probably in his 20s, said that at first the speedy focuser bothered him since he had a Monarch before this, but he eventually adjusted to it. Having owned the LX, I know that my middle-aged eyes wouldn't adjust to it.
Other than that "fatal flaw," I like the rest and would recommend the Terra ED if you don't have deep pockets, or want a car bin, and your name is "Queeks" Draw McGraw.
Baba Looey
Brock,
I enjoyed you both substantive and entertaining impression of the Zeiss. Like a Monarch 5 you say, and I know the plebe workhorse 3, which is probably 75% of what I see in the field, is not bad. (How many of us record binocular sightings? Worry about changes in range, spreads through demographics? I miss birds sometimes but am deadly here.) Cool. Kinda' personal I guess, but you might CONSIDER slowing down your finger.
Ron
I enjoyed you both substantive and entertaining impression of the Zeiss. Like a Monarch 5 you say, and I know the plebe workhorse 3, which is probably 75% of what I see in the field, is not bad. (How many of us record binocular sightings? Worry about changes in range, spreads through demographics? I miss birds sometimes but am deadly here.) Cool. Kinda' personal I guess, but you might CONSIDER slowing down your finger.
Ron
james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
Nice post Brock and I agree with most of what you said - even the fast focuser. While the focus is great for bugs it remains a bit imprecise for birds, as you tend to refocus a lot to hit your marks.
The Conquest, on the other hand, is nearly as fast but much more usable as the focus feel is much more fine, allowing for smaller and more precise adjustments.
The Conquest, on the other hand, is nearly as fast but much more usable as the focus feel is much more fine, allowing for smaller and more precise adjustments.
brocknroller
porromaniac
Thanks, Ron. Yes, the image reminded me of Monarch 5, but with the AFOV of the 10x42 model (60*) rather than the 8x42 model. The Terra ED's image could not be characterized as "cold" like the FL. Either neutral or a bit "warm." I'd like to see Arek do a light transmission curve for the Terra ED to see if that bears out.
There was no distracting "fuzziness" at the edges. I haven't tried the FL, but Zeiss definitely didn't use its "optimize for central sharpness" philosophy in creating this design. The image was adequately sharp, but not razor sharp. At close to medium distance, the little Olympus 7x21 reverse porro seemed to hold its own with the Zeiss in terms of image sharpness, and it only has 21mm aperture and 1x less magnification.
As to slowing down my "qeeks" draw, I have tendonitis in both my index fingers from overuse - typing, transcribing, mousing for many hours a day. So I can't move my finger fast, can't even close my fingers to make a fist. If I slowed down my finger any more I'd have to use old fashioned single frame animation to film it! It's not my technique, I can assure you.
It's also not the focuser tension. It's not loosey goosey like my first LX, it has adequate dampening, it's the gearing ratio It's not possible to turn the focuser knob slowly, just a nudge, and it's on its way from 0-60 mph. There doesn't seem to be anything the user can do to slow it down, and as James states above, this can make it a bit challenging for birding.
I never tried the original B&L Elite, but from Stephen Ingraham and other descriptions of its focuser, the Terra ED's focuser seems to be made like the B&L. Some people might like it that fast, but it's not everybody's cup 'o tea. Event the Terra's twentysomething owner wished the focuser were a bit slower.
Speedy Gonzales
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stereotruckdriver
Well-known member
If you can get passed the focus the image is pretty darn good.
I got mine "CHEAP" so not a lot of room for complaints.
Bryce...
I got mine "CHEAP" so not a lot of room for complaints.
Bryce...
NDhunter
Experienced observer
Brock:
Good to hear your thoughts about the Zeiss Terra. I have posted my thoughts
earlier on this thread, and I find it to be a nice choice in this price range.
The Terra has the same size emblem as the Conquest HD in case you were wondering.
The fast focuser has been mentioned, and I agree, it is a bit too fast for me.
Otherwise, I don't find much to fault.
I think Zeiss has done a nice job with the Terra, and if they decide to build
some other sizes, as in 32 or 50mm, that would be a very good thing !
I know, I would be interested.
Jerry
Good to hear your thoughts about the Zeiss Terra. I have posted my thoughts
earlier on this thread, and I find it to be a nice choice in this price range.
The Terra has the same size emblem as the Conquest HD in case you were wondering.
The fast focuser has been mentioned, and I agree, it is a bit too fast for me.
Otherwise, I don't find much to fault.
I think Zeiss has done a nice job with the Terra, and if they decide to build
some other sizes, as in 32 or 50mm, that would be a very good thing !
I know, I would be interested.
Jerry
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The focuser on mine only turns 360º.
For a more detailed discussion on that, including the speed of the focuser, refer back to thread #32 given in response to Brock's questions at that time.
http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2744140&postcount=32
Bob
For a more detailed discussion on that, including the speed of the focuser, refer back to thread #32 given in response to Brock's questions at that time.
http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2744140&postcount=32
Bob
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NDhunter
Experienced observer
Bob:
I just checked my 8x42 Terra. 8 ft. to infinity takes only 120 degrees. That is well under half
a turn.
That is fast.
I did not check to see how far the focuser turns as that does not matter
to me at all. What counts is in how many degrees it
takes to go from nearby focus to far.
Do you still have your 10x32 LXL, tell us how that one performs,
and compare your Terra to that spec. ?
Edit to add some others:
I just tested my 10x42 Conquest HD, and this one goes from 8 ft. to infinity in
approx. 320 degrees.
The Nikon 8x32 SE goes from 8 ft. to infinity in 400 degrees.
Jerry
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Jerry,
I always measure, in a fashion, how many revolutions the focusers on my binoculars take from dead start to dead stop because I want to see how far past infinity the focus goes. This is important for nearsighted people who want to use them without wearing their glasses.
I still have my 10x32 LXL. It is really fast also. Kimmo Absetz discussed it in this review of 10x binoculars in "Alula." You might want to read it in the comments on the binocular. It got a very good rating. It's focus is unchanged from that time.
http://www.lintuvaruste.fi/hinnasto/optiikkaarvostelu/optics_8_Leicaultravid_GB.shtml
I noted in my review of the Terra ED in the 1st post of this thread that I had no problem with the Zeiss focuser because I was used to the speed of the LX L's focuser but I would have preferred that it was a little stiffer. You will see that I found out that the infinity focus point was at 240.º I can focus the Zeiss on a close object almost from dead start. I couldn't do that with the LX L.
http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2742950&postcount=1
My impression is that the Zeiss is a little bit slower than the LX Ls are and better designed IMO because the usable focusing range starts much earlier than it does with the LX L. It took very little time for me to get used to the Zeiss.
Bob
I always measure, in a fashion, how many revolutions the focusers on my binoculars take from dead start to dead stop because I want to see how far past infinity the focus goes. This is important for nearsighted people who want to use them without wearing their glasses.
I still have my 10x32 LXL. It is really fast also. Kimmo Absetz discussed it in this review of 10x binoculars in "Alula." You might want to read it in the comments on the binocular. It got a very good rating. It's focus is unchanged from that time.
http://www.lintuvaruste.fi/hinnasto/optiikkaarvostelu/optics_8_Leicaultravid_GB.shtml
I noted in my review of the Terra ED in the 1st post of this thread that I had no problem with the Zeiss focuser because I was used to the speed of the LX L's focuser but I would have preferred that it was a little stiffer. You will see that I found out that the infinity focus point was at 240.º I can focus the Zeiss on a close object almost from dead start. I couldn't do that with the LX L.
http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2742950&postcount=1
My impression is that the Zeiss is a little bit slower than the LX Ls are and better designed IMO because the usable focusing range starts much earlier than it does with the LX L. It took very little time for me to get used to the Zeiss.
Bob
brocknroller
porromaniac
Bob:
I just checked my 8x42 Terra. 8 ft. to infinity takes only 120 degrees. That is well under half
a turn.
That is fast.
I did not check to see how far the focuser turns as that does not matter
to me at all. What counts is in how many degrees it
takes to go from nearby focus to far.
Do you still have your 10x32 LXL, tell us how that one performs,
and compare your Terra to that spec. ?
Edit to add some others:
I just tested my 10x42 Conquest HD, and this one goes from 8 ft. to infinity in
approx. 320 degrees.
The Nikon 8x32 SE goes from 8 ft. to infinity in 400 degrees.
Jerry
That's even faster than the 32mm LX,
Varoooooooom! Zeiss should seek an endorsement from NASCAR and include racing stickers with the bins.
Even though the 8x SE's focuser is "pokey" by comparison, I don't find it too slow because of the greater perceived depth. If there is an issue with the SE's focusing, it's the skinny focus wheel that could be improved on.... but alas the SE is no more, so we'll have to live with it as is.
I'd have to use the Terra ED for a longer period to tell for sure if I could adjust to the fast focus., however, based on my experience with the 32mm LX, I'm doubtful.
I think the Terra ED was designed for young birders/hunters who grew up playing fast moving video games and are used to chasing objects at supersonic speeds,,,, and for Speedy Bob A. Looey
Brock
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Steve C
Well-known member
Just looked at another Terra ED awhile ago. Call me Bob A Looey I guess, but I kind of like it. Can't see where anyone should overshoot focus unless you are suffering from birder's fever and using the focus too much. Runs just about like the Swift Eaglet 7x36 I had.
Runs just about like the Swift Eaglet 7x36 I had.
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Howdy all -
Just checking back in since I see this thread has become active again. After a few months as a new Zeiss fan, I have a few comments.
The Terras (8x42) are really nice binoculars. I understand the concerns about the fast focus. For me, it also seems to go with a very shallow depth of field, but maybe that is just another way of saying the same thing in binocular world. I am used to it though, I barely notice it any more. The Terras have gone to my office and get used most weekdays. I have a 7th floor office and they have built an 8 story building next door in the last 18 months. So once or twice a day I check out what is going on. There are various juvenile gulls around too, if we need some bird legitimacy here. Not to mention the Sky Rats - a Street Person feeds them in my viewshed a few times a week.
As I noted earlier in the thread, I went on to buy some Victory FLs (8x32) that have become my every-day binocular. A pair of Conquest HDs (8x42) have come and gone (thank you Eagle). They were pretty darn good and if I didn't already have the FLs I would have kept them. From my non-expert point of view it was pretty hard to see much difference in the images between the FLs and the Conquests in the twilight. My advanced-middle-age eyes (62 years) apparently do not see much difference between a 4mm and 5mm exit pupil. In bright light, the FL's color rendition and ergonomics seemed better to me, but only if I really paid attention to that rather than the bird in view.
Not to mention that having two very similar binoculars, in terms of function, was driving me nuts. If I used the Conquests, I wondered why I was letting the lighter, time-proven, more expensive FLs languish. If I used the FLs, come dusk I would take the Conquests out to check twilight visibility one more time. That way madness lies...
Anyway, the FL's stayed. Much nicer around the neck, and, for me, no downside.
Cheers
Just checking back in since I see this thread has become active again. After a few months as a new Zeiss fan, I have a few comments.
The Terras (8x42) are really nice binoculars. I understand the concerns about the fast focus. For me, it also seems to go with a very shallow depth of field, but maybe that is just another way of saying the same thing in binocular world. I am used to it though, I barely notice it any more. The Terras have gone to my office and get used most weekdays. I have a 7th floor office and they have built an 8 story building next door in the last 18 months. So once or twice a day I check out what is going on. There are various juvenile gulls around too, if we need some bird legitimacy here. Not to mention the Sky Rats - a Street Person feeds them in my viewshed a few times a week.
As I noted earlier in the thread, I went on to buy some Victory FLs (8x32) that have become my every-day binocular. A pair of Conquest HDs (8x42) have come and gone (thank you Eagle). They were pretty darn good and if I didn't already have the FLs I would have kept them. From my non-expert point of view it was pretty hard to see much difference in the images between the FLs and the Conquests in the twilight. My advanced-middle-age eyes (62 years) apparently do not see much difference between a 4mm and 5mm exit pupil. In bright light, the FL's color rendition and ergonomics seemed better to me, but only if I really paid attention to that rather than the bird in view.
Not to mention that having two very similar binoculars, in terms of function, was driving me nuts. If I used the Conquests, I wondered why I was letting the lighter, time-proven, more expensive FLs languish. If I used the FLs, come dusk I would take the Conquests out to check twilight visibility one more time. That way madness lies...
Anyway, the FL's stayed. Much nicer around the neck, and, for me, no downside.
Cheers
stereotruckdriver
Well-known member
Just looked at another Terra ED awhile ago. Call me Bob A Looey I guess, but I kind of like it. Can't see where anyone should overshoot focus unless you are suffering from birder's fever and using the focus too much.
Just was checking mine out on the bird feeder, it is fast and doesn't take much rotations or lack of to achieve focus. The feel and tension of the focus makes it snap to focus easily without over shooting.
Bryce...
Zeiss could settle this potential internet binocular legend (IBL) by tightening up the tension on the focus wheel on the Terra ED a little bit with the next batches that come off the assembly line. As I noted, it has fast focusing but IMO it does not focus as fast as the LX L does.
Bob
Bob
